Gang Features (Suggestions)

[montolh15]

After countless hours of playing this game and experimenting with gangs, I've found several things which I personally believe would significantly improve the gameplay; if it were to be implemented into the game.

1. Gangleaders: Gangleaders are way too rare to find

2. Gang leaders and lieutenants are useless. Besides whatever was stated by the developers, I find leaders and lieutenants somewhat useless. They do not participate in takeovers, nor do they get involved in a fight, in the case where their members are being assaulted. Sure leaders facilitate the gang by recruiting new members, and lieutenants run plays. But other than that, I believe members higher in the hierarchy should have a more dominant role in facilitating and controlling their gang.

3. Gangs are all over the place. In reality, i really don't think gang members would like to be around other gang members belonging to a different gang very long. Here they are all mixed up (some even eat at the same table in the cafeteria!) What would be more realistic is to have gangs actually group up more, and stay away from other gangs. That being said, rooms like the common room / cafeteria would be a nice start.

4. Gang leaders are way too easily killed. This one needs to be seen by the developers Pronto! In reality, gang leaders are constantly guarded. What happened to me was a gang leader was trying to use the phone in an area controlled by another gang. He went alone and was ganged up; dead in seconds. Despite the fact that the leaders have tremendous stat advantage, they are simply chickens in a slaughter house when they are alone. Perhaps have gang leaders guarded by his lieutenants, or soldiers?

These are all the suggestions i have to say. Agree or disagree, feel free to leave a comment. If anyone do agree, please do share my suggestions. I'm no critic. I had tremendous fun with this game, and long hours played. Since this game is in alpha, i believe any suggestions (good or bad) would be appreciated by the developers.

[Mikeldiablo]

There's a reason that the leadership doesn't get involved in the plays and warfare. What if it goes wrong?

[montolh15]

The reason why leadership would be required to be more involved is because their subordinates lose respect. Questions like, "why don't you come with us?" will be common. Naturally, people don't like being told what to do. However, when instructions come from a person you fear / respect, you tend to heed their order and obey their every command. That being said, gang members will surely be rebellious towards their own leaders / lieutenants, if they were to lose faith / respect in their rulers, especially if they feel like their are doing all the hard work while the leaders and lieutenants sit around while **** goes down.

[Mikeldiablo]

There would probably be some fickle gang members who might want out or to make an attempt on the leadership's life. As Chris mentioned in his A35 video, however, he noticed that, in all of the gang docos he watched, the leadership was well away from the action.

[Kolchak]

I gather that this Alpha still has gang members refusing all programs? If so, anti-gang measures would be welcome soon!

Ideally it would be a form of counselling/protection for those wishing to leave a gang. A few sessions with a psychologist and their allegiance is gone.

However, for best modelling, it might be an idea to actually make them a member of an 'anti-gang' - this gang doesn't do anything, but sets all former gang members to be attacked by those they've 'betrayed'. Or there could be a general 'Former Gang' gang, so that anyone who performs the ultimate taboo of leaving a gang is hated (and attacked) by everyone, even their former rivals, simply for leaving the gang and siding with the prison management

[raw_bean]

I gather that this Alpha still has gang members refusing all programs? If so, anti-gang measures would be welcome soon!

Ideally it would be a form of counselling/protection for those wishing to leave a gang. A few sessions with a psychologist and their allegiance is gone.

However, for best modelling, it might be an idea to actually make them a member of an 'anti-gang' - this gang doesn't do anything, but sets all former gang members to be attacked by those they've 'betrayed'. Or there could be a general 'Former Gang' gang, so that anyone who performs the ultimate taboo of leaving a gang is hated (and attacked) by everyone, even their former rivals, simply for leaving the gang and siding with the prison management

I like these ideas. Although the easiest way to deal with the last part is surely just to give them an 'Ex-gang Member' trait that makes all gang members as likely to target them as all prisoners do Snitches and Ex-Law. A prison in a doc. that I saw had ex-gang members segregated in Protective Custody .

[landings101]

I like these ideas. Although the easiest way to deal with the last part is surely just to give them an 'Ex-gang Member' trait that makes all gang members as likely to target them as all prisoners do Snitches and Ex-Law. A prison in a doc. that I saw had ex-gang members segregated in Protective Custody.

(I had to look it up to see if it was true)
a gang member leaving a gang is dependent on the gangs and the guards all of which may not care at all or beat him (or her) up at the first chance they get and gang members are actually able to leave their gang with ease the real pressure being the rival gangs because they need to recognize that they left having a reform program is the same thing as saying to everyone 60 times that they left the gang. leaving a gang won't always put them on a "shit list" as Chris so kindly put it.
http://people.missouristate.edu/michaelcarlie/what_i_learned_about/gangs/getting_out_of_a_gang.htm

[montolh15]

Can we please focus on the main topic at hand please? I believe these suggestions are without doubt one of most important suggestions i believe the developers need to see:

3. Gangs are all over the place. In reality, i really don't think gang members would like to be around other gang members belonging to a different gang very long. Here they are all mixed up (some even eat at the same table in the cafeteria!) What would be more realistic is to have gangs actually group up more, and stay away from other gangs. That being said, rooms like the common room / cafeteria would be a nice start.

4. Gang leaders are way too easily killed. This one needs to be seen by the developers Pronto! In reality, gang leaders are constantly guarded. What happened to me was a gang leader was trying to use the phone in an area controlled by another gang. He went alone and was ganged up; dead in seconds. Despite the fact that the leaders have tremendous stat advantage, they are simply chickens in a slaughter house when they are alone. Perhaps have gang leaders guarded by his lieutenants, or soldiers?

[Mikeldiablo]

True. That said, A36 is coming out tomorrow and Introversion's probably polished some of these things. They might even have changed the reputation set required for gang leadership. They probably also changed the AI so they stick together in groups of at least three.

[montolh15]

No, they didnt make this happen in the last alpha

[Mikeldiablo]

Just noticed. Hopefully these ideas should be put into the official release.

[montolh15]

They don't seem to mention it in their trailer video. The escape mod and the campaign mod seems fun. However what i do find is that it is the simple, little things that make up the game more interesting. You see the problem still remains. As i mentioned before in the above post, gang members of different affiliations are still "friends". They are still fine dining with other inmates of a different affiliation, etc. It is these things that (in my opinion), bothers the player to keep seeing things that don't make sense and or follow reality. Gang features is an incredible upgrade to prison architect, however i believe there are some things that should be change. One being to fix gang member's behavior when they are around gang members of the same/different affiliations. (Such examples would be, walking together as a group, or avoiding any close contact with other gangs).

Another thing i would like to suggest is that in escape mode, staffs are rehired, and the lighter gets nerfed. I don't even bother digging tunnels, and i can imagine other players would do this as well. They just keep killing staffs and other inmates, max out their stats, and just walk through the front door when you massacred everyone in the prison. (or you could just seek out the gang leaders, fight them, run away (the leader gets punished, the riot will ensue) use the commotion to escape. I believe it is alittle too bland at the moment.

These are just suggestions that i find would make the game much more rich in detail and very well impress players. I do hope the developers get to read this, but yet again, even if these changes aren't implemented, i think buying prison architect is still one of my best decisions ive ever made on steam, and would be for other players that buy it as well

[montolh15]

Only hope that these suggestions come to life later in the future