Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

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rabid squirrel
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Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby rabid squirrel » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:00 pm

I made a wonderful new cell block:

Image

The main entrance is the two south doors, while the north door is supposed to be used only by maintenance staff.

The problem is I get prisoners going to the staff door and pulling a guard to open it, instead of using the open path through the south.

The conditions for pathfinding to seek and prefer an open, but longer path are too complex. I think the solution is some sort of explicit designation who is allowed to pass through doors the way we have it for rooms.

Has anyone else thought about or needed something similar?
fresh meat
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby fresh meat » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:04 pm

just create an "airlock"

X = wall
O = walkway
H = door

XXHX
XOOX
XOOX
XOOX
XXHX

mark the space between those doors as staff only
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aubergine18
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby aubergine18 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:57 pm

Even marking an area as staff only won't always prevent prisoners using that route (they'll just get a guard to escort them through the staff only area).
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby rabid squirrel » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:47 am

I did the airlock workaround, but I was hoping to discuss a real solution. For example make the doors clickable in deployment so we can set them the way we set zones. Then make it so we can allow a security group with left click and forbid with right click. God I hope they're planning the mixed access thing.
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby 5hifty » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:02 am

Yeah I've brought up the 'only staff allowed though the staff door' suggestion a few times - think I can hear Xander coming...

Anyway, I've actually been taking a few photos of different doors that match the use of a 'staff only staff door' in real life - I.e: only let's staff though even if prisoners are allowed both sides of the door. The most common use of doors like this that I've found in the real world are maintenance doors at train stations. You are allowed both in and out, but you have to pass a ticket checkpoint, while staff can bypass the checkpoint for increased speed and response time. Also any business that services both inside and outside the station.

I 100% support a door type that only allows staff to pass though.
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby Pogmothoin » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:21 am

5hifty wrote:Yeah I've brought up the 'only staff allowed though the staff door' suggestion a few times - think I can hear Xander coming...

Anyway, I've actually been taking a few photos of different doors that match the use of a 'staff only staff door' in real life - I.e: only let's staff though even if prisoners are allowed both sides of the door. The most common use of doors like this that I've found in the real world are maintenance doors at train stations. You are allowed both in and out, but you have to pass a ticket checkpoint, while staff can bypass the checkpoint for increased speed and response time. Also any business that services both inside and outside the station.

I 100% support a door type that only allows staff to pass though.


Can't be done, because any code that would stop a prisoner from being able to go through the door would also stop them from trying to escape vai the door, making it the only door in the game that a prisoner can't get/break through.
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby 5hifty » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:22 am

So you've forgotten the time when doors and not rooms dictated the movement of prisoners?

Also, I'm assuming you know this because you've read the source code, and can see that it is impossible to add this to the game?
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby utopiar » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:50 am

Yup, having the same wish. Same goes for people crossing certain rooms.
Reading the replies i see it can be difficult.

Maybe romove the wish to cross staff only doors unless in escape/riot mode for prisoners?

Maybe there is a way to place 'preferred routes' for staff and visitors? Or make it so they really dislike crossing other rooms other than their destination. (They will walk around a room even when it's the shortest path)

Rooms with multiple doors like visitation, kitchen, exports etc are now the main reason my main entrance is pretty useless.
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby 5hifty » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:16 am

Its not really that difficult of a thing to add - in fact it was already in the game at one point. In some of the earlier alphas doors where how you controlled movement. Thats why there IS a staff door - its a holdover. Its about if they add it back in and if its a good idea.
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby rabid squirrel » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:39 am

Pogmothoin wrote:Can't be done, because any code that would stop a prisoner from being able to go through the door would also stop them from trying to escape vai the door, making it the only door in the game that a prisoner can't get/break through.

This is not true as prisoners still break doors that are manually set to Locked Shut, while they are treated as walls for other purposes.
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Pogmothoin
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby Pogmothoin » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:28 pm

rabid squirrel wrote:
Pogmothoin wrote:Can't be done, because any code that would stop a prisoner from being able to go through the door would also stop them from trying to escape vai the door, making it the only door in the game that a prisoner can't get/break through.

This is not true as prisoners still break doors that are manually set to Locked Shut, while they are treated as walls for other purposes.


Isn't that what I said? Locked shut doors are still doors, and prisoners will try go through them if they want to.

With regards to the original topic I'd be more concerned as to why the cell block doesn't have jail doors on it. The use of anything weaker is a bad move, but I guess you'll learn that flaw when the riots happen.


@5hifty: Doors still do dictate the movement of prisoners, they will chose to go the path that has a staff door rather than the path that has a jail door. Like wise they chose the path that goes through only one jail door instead of two. Similar to how they will path through the room that has fast tiles rather than one with slow tiles. A staff door is just a wooden door with a lock on it, similar to the other wooden door without a lock. All staff can open a staff door for a prisoner, but only guards can open a jail door, which is why prisoners chose the staff door to path through if that's an option. Personally I very rarely use the staff door for that reason, it's far better to just have a jail door with a servo or a basic door. The only time I use staff doors is for storage cupboards and staff rooms that are set to staff only areas.
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby xander » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:48 pm

5hifty wrote:Yeah I've brought up the 'only staff allowed though the staff door' suggestion a few times - think I can hear Xander coming...

I don't know why you feel the need to call me out, but please recall that "Staff Only" doors *used* to exist in the game, and were removed because they didn't work correctly. Deployment zones get the job done.

Also note that I honestly don't care if there are real world examples of staff only doors separating two areas that a particular prisoner could get to via a longer route. Prison Architect is not meant as a simulation of reality, thus appeals to reality don't carry all that much weight.

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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby 5hifty » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:01 pm

Well if you'd read the thread you would have noticed I already mentioned that they used to be in the game. The reason I brought up real world examples is because last time this argument came up, you cited there being no real world examples as a reason NOT to have it in the game.

Also the real world examples I found use them in the exact capacity that people want to use them in. The game is called Prison Architect - a problem faced by architects is staff access - normally solved by staff doors. I don't see any reason to NOT have staff doors work in the way that most people would expect.
Last edited by 5hifty on Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby utopiar » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:03 pm

Maybe make doors 'clickable' and set 'no entry' for inmates/vistors/staff/guards as an option. Door is not used by this group unless there is no other option.

Routes for each group would be calculated without this door.

In a similar eay rooms could use a 'avoid-unless-destination' checkbox

This could make people go where you want, i guess
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Re: Staff doors for staff and prisoner pathfinding

Postby blackdwarf » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:28 pm

Part of designing a good prison for PA is to work within the constraints of the game to create a good traffic flow. A great prison block that doesn't properly handle traffic flow may not be so great after all.

There are two ways around that:
1: Lobby to change the constraints of the game so your great prison block remains great.
2: Recognise that your prison block doesn't really work so well given the constraints of the game, and work on improving your prison block.

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