[Suggestion] Hire more than 1 Foreman (like Psychologist)

[Pogmothoin]

So there is nothing between a single foreman and "game that 5 year olds can play"? Argumentum ad absurdum is not the way to go.

The rest of your post is argumentum ad populum and not really worth addressing.

Hypocritical trolling in a dead language isn't the way to go either, no matter how "supercilious" it makes you feel. I've stated my opinion (which I'm entitled to), gave sound arguments in support it, so won't respond to the this topic any more lest it become a troll war.

[czar mohab]

Your supercilious comments and "works for me" attitude is quite off putting.

Just because I'm the only one in this thread that has said that it isn't required to have more than one foreman doesn't mean I am alone in thinking that, at least I took my time to try to explain why. The others are probably just sick of responding to this request, if you wish that I just ignore posts like this in the future then I can comply with that, but don't blame me if the game becomes ludicrously simple and no fun.

You two are all fired up. No need for that. Friendly, happy environment. Your differing opinions can live side by side. I'll try to show you.

Disclaimer: When you read the below keep in mind I'm 100% behind "play your way". Learn something new, or learn not; do, or do not. It is your game after all. As always, take my words with a grain of salt, I'm not here to offend, only to help and provide insight.

TL;DR version: Works for me. Only need one. Usually ignore these since the better options have already been suggested, ad nauseam.

The root problem is, that once the research is done, there is little use in the senior staff members. The Devs have always added something for them to do beyond research to give them a reason to hang about, otherwise it is just a money drain.

Truth is, there should never be more than one Foreman in the prison, the same as there should never be more than one Chief or Warden: They're the boss. The Foreman is the boss of his domain. If you have more than one boss, you end up in a "Too many chiefs, not enough warriors" situation, and these are never ever good.

If we absolutely must have more than one teacher for the workshop, have the Foreman teach a class, similar to Taser Certification, for the Workmen, which in turn would then allow a free Workman to teach in any given workshop (This could also be expanded to Janitors to teach workers for the Cleaning Cupboard & Laundry, and Gardeners to teach prisoners how to garden, even though the prisoners gardening has not been implemented, nor is there currently a requirement for training cleaning and laundry, but I digress). Barring that, outside teachers are also an option.

Now, honestly, I don't need any of that. One Foreman to teach in his workshop is more than enough. "He has to travel all over the map to teach there!" I hear you shouting. Rubbish. Build the workshop and the Foreman's office next to each other, nay, put the office *in* the workshop. Place a staff room nearby (you really should have as many of these as possible sprinkled about anyway). Schedule all your training in this one shared workshop and leave any others as you see fit (two max sec and a med sec, all shared, whatever). I would recommend not allowing PC to have any workshop access and this is not difficult to accomplish, but do as you like. The training workshop doesn't even have to be more than 120 sq. meters to maximize training (but maybe to fit everything you'll need, designs vary). Two classes a day with a 50% pass rate will get you 10 workshop workers every second day assuming maximum attendance (this likely won't happen on day one but again, it varies).

To quell some other shouts I can hear already:

--Realistically, if you're planning on any workshop at all it should be installed, in whole or in part, as soon as practical (plan the location on day one, mark it up with the planning tool, and lay the minimum size foundation for the room itself no later than day 3). You only need the minimum requirements to get it up and the class going - you can add to it later as funds permit (using the foundation tool, expand the room size and equipment as funds allow. By day 5-6 you should have room to train new people as others are working the shop. Day 10 should be the goal for workshop #1 completed.
--If a shared workshop doesn't float your boat, build your Foreman's office and his staff room central to the workshops he'll be training in, and stagger which he's giving the training using the program schedule edit tab. If you can, give him an hour break between classes to allow for travel time when changing rooms. This works well with staggered regimes, too.
--The methods above are restrictive to the free play style, I agree; however, it is utilizing the tool available as efficiently as practical given the constraints. Everything in PA runs better when it is as close to the things it needs to run as possible. Build a laundry as far as possible from any given cell block, or a kitchen as far away from deliveries as possible with a canteen just as far away from the kitchen, and you'll see what I am talking about.

The Czar

[likaboss]

Unlimited foremen certainly will make the game easier, if that kind of feature is put into the game we will soon be seeing factory prisons with a few thousand prisoners toiling in silence in multiple workshops.
Also, designing a prison with the restriction in consideration is possible, and one can make highly profitable prisons with only one foreman with careful regime/deployment micromanagement.

However, it's also very unrealistic for a prison architect to be thinking about foreman routines and routes while he's designing prisons.
There are already tons of aspects to be thinking about while designing a prison, and for certain, the mobility of the foreman shouldn't be one of them.
An unrealistic limitation shouldn't decide how we design our prisons.

Thus, I suggest that we should be given more than one foreman, but not an unlimited supply of them like the psychologist.
We could be given one foreman for every two workshops constructed, or it also could depend on the number of prisoners.
This way, the game won't be too easy nor be absurdly challenging.
Also, the price of the foreman could rise depending on the number of foremen already hired. For example, $100 for the first foreman, $150 for the next, $450 for the third, and on and on...

[likaboss]

Your supercilious comments and "works for me" attitude is quite off putting.

Just because I'm the only one in this thread that has said that it isn't required to have more than one foreman doesn't mean I am alone in thinking that, at least I took my time to try to explain why. The others are probably just sick of responding to this request, if you wish that I just ignore posts like this in the future then I can comply with that, but don't blame me if the game becomes ludicrously simple and no fun.

You two are all fired up. No need for that. Friendly, happy environment. Your differing opinions can live side by side. I'll try to show you.

Disclaimer: When you read the below keep in mind I'm 100% behind "play your way". Learn something new, or learn not; do, or do not. It is your game after all. As always, take my words with a grain of salt, I'm not here to offend, only to help and provide insight.

TL;DR version: Works for me. Only need one. Usually ignore these since the better options have already been suggested, ad nauseam.

The root problem is, that once the research is done, there is little use in the senior staff members. The Devs have always added something for them to do beyond research to give them a reason to hang about, otherwise it is just a money drain.

Truth is, there should never be more than one Foreman in the prison, the same as there should never be more than one Chief or Warden: They're the boss. The Foreman is the boss of his domain. If you have more than one boss, you end up in a "Too many chiefs, not enough warriors" situation, and these are never ever good.

If we absolutely must have more than one teacher for the workshop, have the Foreman teach a class, similar to Taser Certification, for the Workmen, which in turn would then allow a free Workman to teach in any given workshop (This could also be expanded to Janitors to teach workers for the Cleaning Cupboard & Laundry, and Gardeners to teach prisoners how to garden, even though the prisoners gardening has not been implemented, nor is there currently a requirement for training cleaning and laundry, but I digress). Barring that, outside teachers are also an option.

Now, honestly, I don't need any of that. One Foreman to teach in his workshop is more than enough. "He has to travel all over the map to teach there!" I hear you shouting. Rubbish. Build the workshop and the Foreman's office next to each other, nay, put the office *in* the workshop. Place a staff room nearby (you really should have as many of these as possible sprinkled about anyway). Schedule all your training in this one shared workshop and leave any others as you see fit (two max sec and a med sec, all shared, whatever). I would recommend not allowing PC to have any workshop access and this is not difficult to accomplish, but do as you like. The training workshop doesn't even have to be more than 120 sq. meters to maximize training (but maybe to fit everything you'll need, designs vary). Two classes a day with a 50% pass rate will get you 10 workshop workers every second day assuming maximum attendance (this likely won't happen on day one but again, it varies).

To quell some other shouts I can hear already:

--Realistically, if you're planning on any workshop at all it should be installed, in whole or in part, as soon as practical (plan the location on day one, mark it up with the planning tool, and lay the minimum size foundation for the room itself no later than day 3). You only need the minimum requirements to get it up and the class going - you can add to it later as funds permit (using the foundation tool, expand the room size and equipment as funds allow. By day 5-6 you should have room to train new people as others are working the shop. Day 10 should be the goal for workshop #1 completed.
--If a shared workshop doesn't float your boat, build your Foreman's office and his staff room central to the workshops he'll be training in, and stagger which he's giving the training using the program schedule edit tab. If you can, give him an hour break between classes to allow for travel time when changing rooms. This works well with staggered regimes, too.
--The methods above are restrictive to the free play style, I agree; however, it is utilizing the tool available as efficiently as practical given the constraints. Everything in PA runs better when it is as close to the things it needs to run as possible. Build a laundry as far as possible from any given cell block, or a kitchen as far away from deliveries as possible with a canteen just as far away from the kitchen, and you'll see what I am talking about.

The Czar

To begin with, we can build an unlimited number of laundries/deliveries/kitchens/canteens. It's realistic. If you want to expand your prison, you can just build another set of those rooms so the cooks don't have to trek few thousand miles to grab that damned box of cabbage.
And seriously, designing a prison with kitchens/canteens in mind is highly realistic. Every real world prison architect does that.

However, foremen: we have only one. We can't just expand our prison and build another workshop, because we know the foreman's gonna be late to his teaching sessions.
Not only that, but we really shouldn't be pulling our hair trying to figure out how to get the foreman to all of your 5+ workshops without him arriving at the last minute of the program session.
It's unrealistic. We should be thinking more about toilet positioning and metal detector bottlenecking, not about foreman walking routes.
Also, although a foreman is the "chief" of the workmen, there's no reason there should be only one of him. I mean, of course, three thousand foremen to one thousand workmen ratio is absurd, but if you have a 100+ workforce, then you sure can have 2+ foremen.

That's why I suggest a limited number of foremen, but not just one. See my last post for a more detailed suggestion.

[czar mohab]

What are you doing so differently where two or more pawns teaching the class is so necessary for you? I am legitimately asking with hopes of a response - I really want to see why.

Please note that I am not arguing against multiple entities doing the teaching, regardless if I feel I need them or not, I'm just against more than one Foreman. There's a huge difference between the two things.

Also, although a foreman is the "chief" of the workmen, there's no reason there should be only one of him. I mean, of course, three thousand foremen to one thousand workmen ratio is absurd, but if you have a 100+ workforce, then you sure can have 2+ foremen.

I understand the point you are trying to make, however. I have a prison with 220 total guards (armed, regular, dogs) - by this argument I should be able to get another Chief. I have so many staff in general maybe I should get a second or third Warden as well. Absurd, isn't it? But, by your logic, they're the boss so I better have more than one. Again, though, by what I see in your argument, your retort will be "I said Foreman not Chief or Warden". You're right. You implied them, you implied they should be included, "foreman is the 'chief'"; chief as in boss. Warden and Chief are bosses. I see, however, into where the meat is - those guys are essentially useless once all the research is done and the taser training is complete (should you need/use it). The foreman gives you something, and repeatably; this is why you're so on about having more than one. You don't care that that realism you were touting in the same comment is thrown out the window here. You don't care that it does not make sense. You only care that a foreman gives you one thing, and more than one gives you more of that thing.

You simply do not need it. He's the boss, you only need one boss of a thing, ergo, there's your reason for only ever having one Foreman. As was stated much earlier, to maintain realism, either the workers can teach the class or outside persons can teach the class, but we should NEVER have more than one Foreman.

The Czar

[likaboss]

What are you doing so differently where two or more pawns teaching the class is so necessary for you? I am legitimately asking with hopes of a response - I really want to see why.

Please note that I am not arguing against multiple entities doing the teaching, regardless if I feel I need them or not, I'm just against more than one Foreman. There's a huge difference between the two things.

Also, although a foreman is the "chief" of the workmen, there's no reason there should be only one of him. I mean, of course, three thousand foremen to one thousand workmen ratio is absurd, but if you have a 100+ workforce, then you sure can have 2+ foremen.

I understand the point you are trying to make, however. I have a prison with 220 total guards (armed, regular, dogs) - by this argument I should be able to get another Chief. I have so many staff in general maybe I should get a second or third Warden as well. Absurd, isn't it? But, by your logic, they're the boss so I better have more than one. Again, though, by what I see in your argument, your retort will be "I said Foreman not Chief or Warden". You're right. You implied them, you implied they should be included, "foreman is the 'chief'"; chief as in boss. Warden and Chief are bosses. I see, however, into where the meat is - those guys are essentially useless once all the research is done and the taser training is complete (should you need/use it). The foreman gives you something, and repeatably; this is why you're so on about having more than one. You don't care that that realism you were touting in the same comment is thrown out the window here. You don't care that it does not make sense. You only care that a foreman gives you one thing, and more than one gives you more of that thing.

You simply do not need it. He's the boss, you only need one boss of a thing, ergo, there's your reason for only ever having one Foreman. As was stated much earlier, to maintain realism, either the workers can teach the class or outside persons can teach the class, but we should NEVER have more than one Foreman.

The Czar

Sir, what's the problem with allowing multiple foremen but not multiple chiefs/wardens?

In prison architect, the administrators don't actually "administrate" the prison. They are prerequisites for facilities and research. In the case of the foreman and the chief, they teach necessary classes.
They don't walk around, ordering guards/workmen to do stuff. That's not why they are there for.
If you are asking for realism in administrators, you should be asking the devs to implement administrators actually doing some administrating work. And hey, I'm sorry, but they're not going to do that.

You should NOT be asking for realism in the administrator mechanism. I mean, the ratio has to be logical – you don't want to have thirty thousand foremen for two workmen. But as long as it goes under the basic logical standards, you shouldn't be asking for more.

As you said, the chief and warden are not really necessary. They're just there for the research and the facilities. The warden does practically nothing except attending executions. The chief is useless after most of your guards have tazers.

The foreman, on the other hand, always has to teach the new prisoners about stamping license plates. He's just so much more useful than the chief/warden.

If one guy is more useful than the other, we get more of that guy – it's as simple as that.

Don't ask for too much realism in a 2D game. In the real world, you don't get to build concrete foundations in four hours. You don't get to manage and build the prison at the same time. You don't get to order firemen to shoot water at your power generators (muhahaha).

Btw, having workmen/teachers teach the workshop classes is too OP. We'll soon be seeing a lot of "$500,000,000 DOLLAR INCOME PRISON" in the Steam workshop if that's implemented.

We should have multiple foremen, but the number of them should be limited to a certain ratio to the number of prisoners, the number of workshops, the distance between workshops, and/or the number of workmen.

[MMZ>Torak]

What are you doing so differently where two or more pawns teaching the class is so necessary for you? I am legitimately asking with hopes of a response - I really want to see why.

How about simply creating an entirely segregated prison where there is NO overlap or mixing of security levels? Completely separate facilities that share little more than dividing walls and a front door?

Right now, we can have a mail room, classrooms (as many as we can afford), canteens and kitchens (as many as we can afford), libraries (as many as we can afford), workshops (as many as we can afford), and staff them all fully, except the workshop. For some arbitrary reason since this entity is named "foreman" we can only have one. There is nothing inherent to the title "foreman" that makes it an exclusive posting. If it really irks people that there can be only one foreman, then expand the "teachers" to the shops and require a foreman before teachers can be hired. Call the shop "teachers" Job Coaches or some other suitably inoffensive name so that we are not locked into a single design of prisons whereby the whole prison is designed around the only shop that can provide proper job training to 5 different security levels simultaneously (thus completely breaking the design intent of segregation by security level).

What if the same logic was applied to canteens? (OMG there is only one chef in a kitchen, why can I hire 20?)

Why is the workshop so different than the infirmary or psychologist's office? All three provide rehabilitation, yet only the workshop has an arbitrary limitation of how it can be used to provide those rehabilitation services; and what security levels can attend.

[czar mohab]

These are some of the reasons why there should only ever be one.

Need more?

I digress.

In prison architect, the administrators don't actually "administrate" the prison. They are prerequisites for facilities and research. In the case of the foreman and the chief, they teach necessary classes.
They don't walk around, ordering guards/workmen to do stuff. That's not why they are there for.
If you are asking for realism in administrators, you should be asking the devs to implement administrators actually doing some administrating work. And hey, I'm sorry, but they're not going to do that.

I'm not asking for realism in admin staff. Regardless of usefulness, it is already there. As long as they are employed, they're administrating. Look at it from a different point of view, if you would. Research is just a blanket term for what they are doing when you want to add a new feature to your prison. It is more akin to permitting. You're not researching Death Row (seriously, that's been around as long as humans in some form or other, research complete) but applying for the appropriate permits and whatnot for the facility to be able to host Death Row and all of the tat that comes with it. Yes, every single one of them is essentially useless once their tree is completed, but not completely. Chief, as one, gives you access to the thermometer. Accountant gives you the ability to go negative income just by being on site. That's administrating.

You should NOT be asking for realism in the administrator mechanism. I mean, the ratio has to be logical – you don't want to have thirty thousand foremen for two workmen. But as long as it goes under the basic logical standards, you shouldn't be asking for more.

I'm not asking for realism in the administrator mechanism; as stated, it is already there, you just have to see past what the game presents to you. The ratio is logical - 1 Foreman per prison.

As you said, the chief and warden are not really necessary. They're just there for the research and the facilities. The warden does practically nothing except attending executions. The chief is useless after most of your guards have tazers.

The foreman, on the other hand, always has to teach the new prisoners about stamping license plates. He's just so much more useful than the chief/warden.

First off I said they were essentially useless, you still need them for the passive benefits they give; but, I do agree with the rest of this.

If one guy is more useful than the other, we get more of that guy – it's as simple as that.

By that logic, the Chief, who is more useful than the Warden (taser training) should come in multiples as well.

Don't ask for too much realism in a 2D game. In the real world, you don't get to build concrete foundations in four hours. You don't get to manage and build the prison at the same time. You don't get to order firemen to shoot water at your power generators (muhahaha).

Honestly, I generally don't. There's a lot of realism already in game, anyway.

Since the game time is in two functions of time, we'll have to take a moment to break this part down. 1 game day is 1/5 of a year, 5 days is one year. 4 game hours is a little over 12 days. Working 24/7, with a couple of breaks at the end, it isn't unreasonable to have a decent foundation, walls and roof poured and ready to occupy in that time. This assumes, of course, some kind of fast cure on the concrete but still, its well within the realm of possibility.

Yeah, I agree, typically that's two different people, but, again, not impossible that one could direct the construction of, say, an office complex, and then go be desk-jockey CEO in the same building.

You can tell anyone to do anything. Whether they do it or not is a different thing.

Btw, having workmen/teachers teach the workshop classes is too OP. We'll soon be seeing a lot of "$500,000,000 DOLLAR INCOME PRISON" in the Steam workshop if that's implemented.

We should have multiple foremen, but the number of them should be limited to a certain ratio to the number of prisoners, the number of workshops, the distance between workshops, and/or the number of workmen.

Why can't you combine those two thoughts? " having workmen/teachers teach the workshop classes but the number of them [teaching] should be limited to a certain ratio to the number of prisoners [and] the number of workshops".

How about simply creating an entirely segregated prison where there is NO overlap or mixing of security levels?

Its already been addressed:

--If a shared workshop doesn't float your boat, build your Foreman's office and his staff room central to the workshops he'll be training in, and stagger which he's giving the training using the program schedule edit tab. If you can, give him an hour break between classes to allow for travel time when changing rooms. This works well with staggered regimes, too.

If it really irks people that there can be only one foreman, then expand the "teachers" to the shops and require a foreman before teachers can be hired.

Or, and hear me out on this, call him something else that does not imply the "only one" status. Also available: adjust class sizes and running times to allow for the one to teach the many more efficiently.

Why is the workshop so different than the infirmary or psychologist's office? All three provide rehabilitation, yet only the workshop has an arbitrary limitation of how it can be used to provide those rehabilitation services; and what security levels can attend.

Fairly certain the decisions were not arbitrary by any means.

I just hope, no matter the outcome, this does get resolved in some way.

The Czar

[likaboss]

These are some of the reasons why there should only ever be one.

Need more?

I digress.

In prison architect, the administrators don't actually "administrate" the prison. They are prerequisites for facilities and research. In the case of the foreman and the chief, they teach necessary classes.
They don't walk around, ordering guards/workmen to do stuff. That's not why they are there for.
If you are asking for realism in administrators, you should be asking the devs to implement administrators actually doing some administrating work. And hey, I'm sorry, but they're not going to do that.

I'm not asking for realism in admin staff. Regardless of usefulness, it is already there. As long as they are employed, they're administrating. Look at it from a different point of view, if you would. Research is just a blanket term for what they are doing when you want to add a new feature to your prison. It is more akin to permitting. You're not researching Death Row (seriously, that's been around as long as humans in some form or other, research complete) but applying for the appropriate permits and whatnot for the facility to be able to host Death Row and all of the tat that comes with it. Yes, every single one of them is essentially useless once their tree is completed, but not completely. Chief, as one, gives you access to the thermometer. Accountant gives you the ability to go negative income just by being on site. That's administrating.

You should NOT be asking for realism in the administrator mechanism. I mean, the ratio has to be logical – you don't want to have thirty thousand foremen for two workmen. But as long as it goes under the basic logical standards, you shouldn't be asking for more.

I'm not asking for realism in the administrator mechanism; as stated, it is already there, you just have to see past what the game presents to you. The ratio is logical - 1 Foreman per prison.

As you said, the chief and warden are not really necessary. They're just there for the research and the facilities. The warden does practically nothing except attending executions. The chief is useless after most of your guards have tazers.

The foreman, on the other hand, always has to teach the new prisoners about stamping license plates. He's just so much more useful than the chief/warden.

First off I said they were essentially useless, you still need them for the passive benefits they give; but, I do agree with the rest of this.

If one guy is more useful than the other, we get more of that guy – it's as simple as that.

By that logic, the Chief, who is more useful than the Warden (taser training) should come in multiples as well.

Don't ask for too much realism in a 2D game. In the real world, you don't get to build concrete foundations in four hours. You don't get to manage and build the prison at the same time. You don't get to order firemen to shoot water at your power generators (muhahaha).

Honestly, I generally don't. There's a lot of realism already in game, anyway.

Since the game time is in two functions of time, we'll have to take a moment to break this part down. 1 game day is 1/5 of a year, 5 days is one year. 4 game hours is a little over 12 days. Working 24/7, with a couple of breaks at the end, it isn't unreasonable to have a decent foundation, walls and roof poured and ready to occupy in that time. This assumes, of course, some kind of fast cure on the concrete but still, its well within the realm of possibility.

Yeah, I agree, typically that's two different people, but, again, not impossible that one could direct the construction of, say, an office complex, and then go be desk-jockey CEO in the same building.

You can tell anyone to do anything. Whether they do it or not is a different thing.

Btw, having workmen/teachers teach the workshop classes is too OP. We'll soon be seeing a lot of "$500,000,000 DOLLAR INCOME PRISON" in the Steam workshop if that's implemented.

We should have multiple foremen, but the number of them should be limited to a certain ratio to the number of prisoners, the number of workshops, the distance between workshops, and/or the number of workmen.

Why can't you combine those two thoughts? " having workmen/teachers teach the workshop classes but the number of them [teaching] should be limited to a certain ratio to the number of prisoners [and] the number of workshops".

How about simply creating an entirely segregated prison where there is NO overlap or mixing of security levels?

Its already been addressed:

--If a shared workshop doesn't float your boat, build your Foreman's office and his staff room central to the workshops he'll be training in, and stagger which he's giving the training using the program schedule edit tab. If you can, give him an hour break between classes to allow for travel time when changing rooms. This works well with staggered regimes, too.

If it really irks people that there can be only one foreman, then expand the "teachers" to the shops and require a foreman before teachers can be hired.

Or, and hear me out on this, call him something else that does not imply the "only one" status. Also available: adjust class sizes and running times to allow for the one to teach the many more efficiently.

Why is the workshop so different than the infirmary or psychologist's office? All three provide rehabilitation, yet only the workshop has an arbitrary limitation of how it can be used to provide those rehabilitation services; and what security levels can attend.

Fairly certain the decisions were not arbitrary by any means.

I just hope, no matter the outcome, this does get resolved in some way.

The Czar

tbh, this conversation has been going on for way too long than its worth. I'm kind of tired of arguing.

What I'm saying is, the foreman should be an exception from the administrator count restriction because he's just so much more useful than the rest of the admin staff.

What you're saying is, having multiple foremen is unrealistic and the developers should allow teachers and workmen to teach the workshop classes.

I have to admit a lot of your points make sense (realism of the game), but I also think some of my points are worth considering (realism doesn't matter have more of the useful stuff and less of the useless stuff).

I believe we both agree on the fact that we need more than one staff that's able to teach workshop classes, so how about we post this suggestion on Mantis and let the developers decide whether they remove the foreman restriction or allow other staff to teach workshop classes?

Also, thank you for having a decent discussion/argument on this topic with me, many people on the net these days simply scream their ideas without any backing and it's quite hard to communicate with them.

[MMZ>Torak]

Or, and hear me out on this, call him something else that does not imply the "only one" status. Also available: adjust class sizes and running times to allow for the one to teach the many more efficiently.

There is nothing about the term foreman that implies exclusivity, singularity, or any other iteration of sole possession of title. There is literally no reason there cannot be a foreman for each security level; certainly not based on the exclusivity of his title.

Also, as I said before, change the name if it really sticks in your craw. We can have an infinite amount of other rehabilitation specialists (psychologists, doctors, and to a similar extent, jobs in the kitchen, laundry, and housekeeping) but only one guy in the whole prison can teach a trade?

--If a shared workshop doesn't float your boat, build your Foreman's office and his staff room central to the workshops he'll be training in, and stagger which he's giving the training using the program schedule edit tab. If you can, give him an hour break between classes to allow for travel time when changing rooms. This works well with staggered regimes, too.

Not a solution, a work around. Why should every prison have to be designed around the foreman? He is not the most important thing in the prison. That arguably falls to the prisoners' cells and their security levels. Are you really suggesting the entire prison be designed to rotate around the foreman like his is the center of the Prison Architect universe?

[xPyr0x]

My foreman keeps getting killed while teaching workshop.... lol.

[Kilyle]

Why can I hire 500 lawyers, 80 nurses 10000 guards, but only one guy who knows how to teach shop class?

I'd say "Why does shop safety class have to be taught by the foreman?"

We can hire all sorts of other people to come in and teach whatever's needed.

In fact, given the "You can hire external teachers" quality, I'd like to see the ability to choose between internal and external resources. Maybe I'm running enough classes to justify having a full-time prison teacher, and maybe continuing to hire external teachers would cost more than having a prison teacher, once you get to a certain number of classes per day. Similarly, maybe if you use your existing Foreman to teach the class, it wouldn't cost anything, but if you hire external teachers, it costs something, so it's better to find ways to schedule around the foreman, but if you don't want to do that then you should be free to hire teachers.

Also, maybe the foreman's class could be more effective than the classes taught by external resources. Maybe the foreman's class is only two sessions while the external teachers take three sessions. That would incentivize the use of the foreman without requiring all players to always use only the foreman. And it seems more in keeping with other parts of the setup, like how I can have several classrooms operating at the same time.

[dapullia]

One thing I have suggested is giving you the ability to hire labor from say a carpenter in the community to teach sessions of your workshop related courses but a higher cost per session than if you use your own staff to teach it. Maybe charge it at 2x the normal cost as you have contracting expenses and such to get an outside teacher to come in because workshop classes are considered more dangerous (due to the prisoners access to tools, etc.) and you would need extra guards in such sessions. The same thing for psychologists....you should be able to contract for extra help in these sessions. What about also offering the ability to have students from the local college/medical school intern in the prison providing you with free labor for classes or professional services (Medical Doctors, Psychologists, Teachers) in exchange for slightly lower success rates.