Valuation exploit

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steviebuk
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Valuation exploit

Postby steviebuk » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:18 pm

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but would this be classed as "gaming the system"?

I have 75 prisoners max capacity is 157 but I have chosen to stick with the 75.

Cash at $43k, 100% share of the prison. Sale value is currently at $790k

I can take 100 max sec prisons that I have no room for to get a bonus of 100k

Now makes my prison sale value worth $880k as the prisoners are being moved in to the prison. I could sell up right now, making a $100k profit from what it was despite having no room for these prisoners so letting whoever buys it deal with the problem. Surely that's gaming the valuation system? So maybe make it that you can't sell your prison until a day or two after new inmates have arrived.
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Pogmothoin
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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby Pogmothoin » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:39 pm

Valuation isn't important tbh,

It allows someone who has built a prison to take that money and start a new one with a chunk of cash. But tbh, once you've built a few prisons you don't even need to sell them any more, as you can generate cash so quickly at the start of a prison and are able to spend it more efficiently.

If you run your prison well, you should earn way more money than you ever need to spend, and valuation rockets into the 10's of millions. On average I profit over 100k a day in my prisons. I once built 10x full sized 20 man workshops, with a saw/press/carp table for everyone, it barely even dented my cash.

You could request that the developers take a look at the finance system again, I think it's been a while, and a lot has been added/revised. New players still struggle with cash flow until they learn the game, but honestly I don't think it's supposed to be a defining feature of the game.
steviebuk
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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby steviebuk » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:45 pm

I struggle with cash flow. Currently, don't know if it's a bug, despite the prison going for 187 days, only 1 person has "finished" the "Carpentry Apprenticeship" program with 0 passed. And I've scrapped the mail room as it appears broken at the moment. The mail comes in to be sorted but never gets handed out.
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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby xander » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:54 pm

steviebuk wrote:I struggle with cash flow. Currently, don't know if it's a bug, despite the prison going for 187 days, only 1 person has "finished" the "Carpentry Apprenticeship" program with 0 passed. And I've scrapped the mail room as it appears broken at the moment. The mail comes in to be sorted but never gets handed out.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the original problem (though I do see how it relates Pogmothoin's somewhat tangential anecdote). The overall point is that the only thing valuation does for you in terms of game mechanics is allow you to scrap your current prison and build a new prison with some starting cash. $100k in either direction isn't going to make that much difference, at least not compared to starting from scratch with $0.

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Pogmothoin
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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby Pogmothoin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:17 am

steviebuk wrote:I struggle with cash flow. Currently, don't know if it's a bug, despite the prison going for 187 days, only 1 person has "finished" the "Carpentry Apprenticeship" program with 0 passed. And I've scrapped the mail room as it appears broken at the moment. The mail comes in to be sorted but never gets handed out.


If you struggle with cash flow, here's some tips:

Research offshore bank account asap,
Don't hire too many staff or guards, just hire what your need for the work that's to be done. (A good rule of thumb, you only need about 15 more guards than you have stationed, and most rooms don't need anyone stationed in them, play around with deployment and see what is the least you can get away with)
Have section of land for forestry, trees are a great source of income,
Get some workshops on the go, they generate a lot of profit too,
Have holding cells, they are temporary for your prisoners to live in while you build cells, but allow you get the income for the prisoners over your standard cell capacity,
Don't build too much at a time, it kills the cash you may have, and will take the workers forever to build anyway.

Carpentry is bugged atm, prisoners aren't taking the course. But you only need it for the grant, so it isn't important. Workshop induction is all you need to make money. Mail room is still buggy and its a luxury, you don't need one, nor do you need a shop.
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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby Jailer » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:50 pm

In any case you could try to negate the exploit by including a penalty for overcrowding in the valuation.
Penalty would need to be at least offsetting the extra income you get from the surplus prisoners. As the different categories min/med/max/deathrow have different income levels, take the highest and add a % to that.
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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby MMZ>Torak » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:57 pm

Jailer wrote:In any case you could try to negate the exploit by including a penalty for overcrowding in the valuation.
Penalty would need to be at least offsetting the extra income you get from the surplus prisoners. As the different categories min/med/max/deathrow have different income levels, take the highest and add a % to that.


Or simply disallow the sale of a prison that is overcrowded, much like you cannot sell a prison that is "in the red".
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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby czar mohab » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:28 pm

MMZ>Torak wrote:
Jailer wrote:In any case you could try to negate the exploit by including a penalty for overcrowding in the valuation.
Penalty would need to be at least offsetting the extra income you get from the surplus prisoners. As the different categories min/med/max/deathrow have different income levels, take the highest and add a % to that.


Or simply disallow the sale of a prison that is overcrowded, much like you cannot sell a prison that is "in the red".


It would not be feasible. Some players use the holding cell as a buffer, absorbing the overflow for a day or two. Some players use only holding cells. I am aware that the holding cells now count towards capacity, but that is based on beds placed there not size of the cell - a bare minimum holding cell won't count towards capacity, leading the two above types of players, assuming a bare minimum holding cell, constantly being overcrowded.

That being said, what about overcrowding due to fire? You're saying that a player that has his prison burned (in part or in whole) can't recoup some of the loss, sell the thing and start over? S/he has to stay with the burned husk of a prison or start new with only 30k when the husk can still be sold for a couple hundred thousand? The player wouldn't be allowed to rage sell. Not cool.

xander, as is often the case, is correct. 100k in either direction isn't that big of a deal towards the next prison.

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Re: Valuation exploit

Postby MMZ>Torak » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:11 pm

czar mohab wrote:That being said, what about overcrowding due to fire? You're saying that a player that has his prison burned (in part or in whole) can't recoup some of the loss, sell the thing and start over? S/he has to stay with the burned husk of a prison or start new with only 30k when the husk can still be sold for a couple hundred thousand? The player wouldn't be allowed to rage sell. Not cool.
The Czar


For that matter why disallow the sale of any prison? A player has a prison that they neglected (fire, riot, poor spending) and they want to sell it. The game won't let you sell it if you are in the red. Why is that any different from other types of neglect?

I was just offering an alternative suggestion. I do agree that $100k is really rather negligible...

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