Abusing Room Grading with 0 grade cells

[JudasTheRogue]

There's a lot of talk about the issues and difficulties with room quality, measuring room grade and prisoner transfer.

Some of the discussions can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=53175
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=53487
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=53498
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=53134

What I've tried is to check if the average grade can be abused with lots of empty 0 grade cells, which it can. I lowered my average from including both 3 and 4 to 1 and 2. It cost a bit, but everyone became a lot happier.

Have anyone else abused it in such a way and do you think that unoccupied cells should be included in the average calculation?

[Ravenmad]

if this is correct then Grading doesn't realy matter , its to do with the 3 grades which would make sence as far as i can see in my prisons. i'll give it a try and see what happens too

[Pogmothoin]

So err yeah, in one of those topics I've already stated that I abuse the grading system. It's very similar to how the system works for dwarf fortress, I'm not sure if Chris intended the system to be the same as dwarf fortress, but the similarities are striking.

Basically you want to keep your average a low as possible. To do this you'll need about 10-20% of your cells to be bellow average (grade 0), and 10-20% above average, (grade 3-4) and the rest at average (grade 1)

Tbh the cells grading doesn't make a huge difference, Cell 0 people aren't always bad, nor cell 10 always good. The main reason I use cell grading is so that the cells on the outer walls of my prison are better than average, so that those people are less likely to try to tunnel out (anyone not on an outer wall that is determined to tunnel has that a dozen more squares to dig, and they very rarely get any help from an above average occupant), or in death row so that I can fill the cell it with things they need to satisfy needs (shower, weights, phone, carpet, tv). I tend to have my Cell 0 people on the major travel route of the cell block, so that the guards are always close to them, and they are first to the showers in the morning.

I have noticed that the way the guards and game handle the punishment and grading system that you do actually need grade 0 cells, bad prisoners would rather live in a 1x3 cell than in a holding cell (because they value privacy over comfort), which is where they would go if they have been caught being bad.

[JudasTheRogue]

So err yeah, in one of those topics I've already stated that I abuse the grading system.

From "[Suggestion] Cell Grading Average Based Off Security Levels":

Before cell averages I never had any cells less than 2x3, now I have to build lots of grade 0 cells just to keep averages down.

Yes, that is true. I just didn't get the impression that you built a lot of them to never be used just to get the average down. As I understand you, you're making a strategic choice and a careful placement of them where, as I understand it, they are all open for usage. Not as I did, bought some land on the side I'm not going to use and build lots of minimum cells and set the area to staff only.

I believe what you're doing is, as of now and perhaps in the future too, the right way to do it. I will learn from your explanation. Since I started with 0 cells all escape attempts have been coming from them and not the grade 2 cells before them. Trouble comes from the 0 cells while the more luxurious doesn't cause escaping trouble. Thus making it a lot easier to search the block for escape tunnels. Mine are thought too close to the border in this iteration, which is where I have to change my design.

But how to deal with the grading exploit? What would the implications be if empty cells where excluded in the calculation or should just inaccessible cells be excluded?

Exclusion of empty cells:
Excluding empty cells would probably be the easiest change, but it will affect non-abusive architectures and will have to be updated whenever a cell gets empty. This might even affect the average if prisoners are moved to a more deserved cell increasing or decreasing the average depending on if they moved to a better or lower cell and whether it was empty or swapped. Having more cells than prisoners will also strongly affect the grading when prisoners are up- or downgraded making the move obsolete if too many are moved.

Ex: 10 prisoners and 10 grade 0/1/2 cells, 30 cells in total.
First everyone is in a grade 0 cell, which is average since they all use it. Then after the first day they are moved up to grade 1 cells, which then becomes the average.

What this actually creates is a grading of the prisoners' priviliges on a scale. How well they behave compared to the others. If they all behave equally good they will always have an average cell in the case above. But if one of them misbehaves and the others do not, that prisoner will be alone at the bottom and thus have a below average cell. Which is actually something that could be fun.

Exclusion of inaccessible cells:
To exclude inaccessible cells would be more corret but requires a path finding search for each cell which updates each time a change is made to the architecture. This could be heavy and it also needs to take into account if Min/Med/Max/PC/SM Only should get included. Because if just staff, shut doors or no doors at all are checked it's easy to block them with setting them to a security area which is non-present in the prison or even just block it with two different areas after another.

Thought if all cells are used it can't, per definition, abuse the grade average and everything will act as present.

[Pogmothoin]

Oh yes I use them, in fact using the current system in dwarf fortress I used have almost all the dwarfs personal quarters as 1x3 spaces with only families and special dwarfs getting anything bigger.

The way to truly exploit the system is to have nearly all of your cells at grade 0, and a handful better than that, that way even a grade 0 is still an average cell, and only the truly well behaved get anything better. However Chris had a fit in one of the alpha vids at a prison which featured a whole prison like that so I don't think he'd like that to be the norm. But the system in place does lean toward that way of thinking, my only issue with it, is that in this game prisoners spend far more time in their cells than the dwarves did, usually due to being locked down.

I'm not sure that your further suggestion could be implemented, the guards struggle to keep up with the current system. It would cause a lot more work for your guards, which is something you don't want, they do enough as it is. If your guards are constantly changing people from one cell to another that's bad, even worse if it's to different cell blocks. The only time your staff really get any work done is during the night, where guards spend most of the time opening cell doors for them, if the guards aren't there then that all breaks down as well.

Something I would like some indication of is prisoners actively trying to be good to warrant a bigger cell, and others actively being jealous and trying to get the people in above average cells in trouble. Of course there would have to be some kind of top dog system as well, where the toughest bad asses rule the cell block from their luxurious mansion like cell, and only other aspiring bad asses would dare challenge them for it. But in order for that to work the punishment system would have to change so that if a prisoner gets attacked then they don't get punished for defending themselves, unless they attack staff when they try to stop it. Eg: 2 prisoners attack another, all 3 get punished for attacking a prisoner, when only 2 should be.