Riots after shower time

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Stealth2668
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Riots after shower time

Postby Stealth2668 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:12 pm

I have a max-sec only prison and after the sleep period is over it's shower time. Once shower time is over they are at the edge of boiling over because they're hungry and have other needs that need immediate relief. Before they make it to the cafeteria sometimes a full blown riot breaks out and last time there were almost 100 casualties. How can I avoid this? Even if they don't riot they are VERY close to it because their needs build up so much in their sleep that when they wake up, there's like 6 things that they're really pissed about.
Robbedem
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Robbedem » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:32 pm

This is a bug in the game: http://bugs.introversion.co.uk/view.php?id=7301
Normally when prisoners sleep, theire needs go up slowly, but currently the need for sleep is fulfilled very quicly, and even though the prisoners are sleeping in their bed, the game has the other needs go up as if the prisoner was awake.
Murph
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Murph » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:35 pm

I'm not convinced that the sleep need is satisfied too quickly, at least in alpha 31. Sleep seems to be more or less ok, mostly satisfied in about 4-5 hours, 6-7 needed for everyone green. That seems reasonable enough to me.

What's not reasonable is the other needs going from mostly green with just a little yellow, up to a large amount of orange and red while they are sleeping. At least some of the other needs should grow while asleep, but it seems bizarre for half the needs of half the prison to go from ok-ish to "critical" overnight. With a larger prison, it becomes a nightmare with frequent shower riots.

On the plus side of it, as long as the death rate from the daily shower riot stays just below "game over" level, it can be profitable, as it lets you maintain a much higher intake rate for the new intake cash! ;-)
Stealth2668
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Stealth2668 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:06 pm

Murph wrote:I'm not convinced that the sleep need is satisfied too quickly, at least in alpha 31. Sleep seems to be more or less ok, mostly satisfied in about 4-5 hours, 6-7 needed for everyone green. That seems reasonable enough to me.

What's not reasonable is the other needs going from mostly green with just a little yellow, up to a large amount of orange and red while they are sleeping. At least some of the other needs should grow while asleep, but it seems bizarre for half the needs of half the prison to go from ok-ish to "critical" overnight. With a larger prison, it becomes a nightmare with frequent shower riots.

On the plus side of it, as long as the death rate from the daily shower riot stays just below "game over" level, it can be profitable, as it lets you maintain a much higher intake rate for the new intake cash! ;-)


Haha ya. I have fail conditions off so when 80 inmates die, I bring in 80 the next day since my pool builds up quick then get a nice boost in $$$
Stereolab
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Stereolab » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:54 pm

Putting a shower in each cell seems to work, but I refuse to do that since it's completely unrealistic. I've never heard of a real prison like that. Having a cell shower should have major negative side-effects such as damaging beds, cell doors, etc.
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Murph » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:32 pm

Stereolab wrote:Putting a shower in each cell seems to work, but I refuse to do that since it's completely unrealistic. I've never heard of a real prison like that. Having a cell shower should have major negative side-effects such as damaging beds, cell doors, etc.


The US seem to do it for their AdMax facilities, like ADX Florence. It's part of their "whatever it costs/takes" type thing for when they have someone that they feel should spend 99.999% of the remainder of their life in a small concrete box with very little exception. The cells are 99% concrete and the shower, sink, and toilet are all vandal and flood resistant. For normal, and even max security, I agree it's quite unrealistic to be forced to have in-cell showers just to prevent a riot every morning.

That said, I believe that some normal UK prisons have been built in recent years with en-suite facilities, part of the thinking that lack of liberty is the punishment, and that degrading facilities are counter productive to reform. So, it's unrealistic to be forced to do that to avoid a daily riot, but not unrealistic to do it at both ends of the security scale (supermax to avoid the need for contact; max, normal and min for a different approach to reform and rehabilitation).
Stealth2668
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Stealth2668 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:38 am

Well I have over 350 cells so I'm not manually adding a shower to each one lol. Also, it's mostly after shower time that's the problem. When shower time is over the temperature shoots up quick.
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby BugPowderDust » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:52 am

You can try putting toilets in the shower areas- this worked for me when I had a bowel/bladder issue in the mornings. That way, they can deal with hygiene and bladder/bowel at the same time.
Stereolab
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Stereolab » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:27 am

Also, give them an hour free time after sleep but before shower. This will allow them to use the toilet in their cell, use the phone, common room, etc. before congregating in the shower. Or don't even have a set shower time at all, that's what I do. They will then use the shower when they want.
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby BugPowderDust » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:34 am

Stereolab wrote:Also, give them an hour free time after sleep but before shower. This will allow them to use the toilet in their cell, use the phone, common room, etc. before congregating in the shower. Or don't even have a set shower time at all, that's what I do. They will then use the shower when they want.


I tried this, then found the prisoners overslept into the free time! Then they woke up super grumpy :roll:
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby officerc » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:54 am

This only happens with a time warp factor of 0.5. What I did with my big prison is, that I set this factor manually back to 1,0 again. In my opinion this is a bug but Chris seems to be aware of it. The problem is, that in big prisons time goes by more slowly, but the needs fill up the same speed as before...
Amitiel
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Amitiel » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:57 am

It can also be an idea to have an eating time right before they go to bed - and in the canteen there have a variety of things that address the needs, i.e. toilets, weight benches, payphones, etc. If you're minimizing the number of outstanding needs they have before they go to sleep, they should hopefully kick off less in the morning. Fingers-crossed we'll get a fix for this in a couple of weeks.
Stealth2668
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Stealth2668 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:36 pm

Amitiel wrote:It can also be an idea to have an eating time right before they go to bed - and in the canteen there have a variety of things that address the needs, i.e. toilets, weight benches, payphones, etc. If you're minimizing the number of outstanding needs they have before they go to sleep, they should hopefully kick off less in the morning. Fingers-crossed we'll get a fix for this in a couple of weeks.


Ya, I have toilets, phones, workbenches, TV's and showers in my canteen already which works pretty well. Once they make it to the canteen the whole day goes fine. It's getting there from the showers 15 blocks away that's the problem lol.

BugPowderDust wrote:You can try putting toilets in the shower areas- this worked for me when I had a bowel/bladder issue in the mornings. That way, they can deal with hygiene and bladder/bowel at the same time.


I didn't think about that, I'll try that out. I should probably put pool tables in there as well :D
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Threehorns » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:24 pm

Stealth2668 wrote:Well I have over 350 cells so I'm not manually adding a shower to each one lol. Also, it's mostly after shower time that's the problem. When shower time is over the temperature shoots up quick.


trying using regime with (something like)
.... sleep
6 am: shower
7 am: freetime
8 am: eat
9-5 .... work with 1 hour off somewhere or 9-6 work with 2 single hours off.
6-7 pm: eat
Robbedem
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Re: Riots after shower time

Postby Robbedem » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:03 pm

I generally put one hour of free time after eat, because it allows prisoners that only just got their food to finish eating it.

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