[Suggestion] - more vulnerable reps for PC

[xPyr0x]

We all know snitches, ex cops, ci's, cop killer are targets. Well I think rape should make them risk of being attacked along with related crimes. Maybe give them "sex offender - his life may be in danger" Also (not implemented yet) crimes against women or children. Even in prison these kinds of people are the scum of the earth to even other prisoners and guards and don't last long in general population.

[iNick]

I downvote this. I understand your point, but I kindly turn it down.

[Currie]

More flavour text? Hey, that's fine with me. I might not read it all, but I don't mind.

But I do have a problem with having more vulnerable prisoners. Look, I like the challenge, but it's annoying to have to call in my CIs everyday after 8AM to see if any of the new arrivals require protective custody. We need an easier way of figuring out who's in danger.

[Amitiel]

More flavour text? Hey, that's fine with me. I might not read it all, but I don't mind.

But I do have a problem with having more vulnerable prisoners. Look, I like the challenge, but it's annoying to have to call in my CIs everyday after 8AM to see if any of the new arrivals require protective custody. We need an easier way of figuring out who's in danger.

I would disagree. It's not only unrealistic, but it'd make the entire system trivial if when a prisoner shows up, they automatically flash up with a big "I need to be in protective custody" sign over their heads. You already find out the traits of 50% of the prisoners as they come into your prison, making that any easier would defeat the object of the exercise. Bear in mind you don't have to send in your CIs every day and figure out if a particular prisoner needs protecting - with smaller cell blocks and adequate guards, your other prisoners may not even have a chance to kill them. Even if they do, there's no long-term penalty to it unless you were hoping to have a 100-day no incident streak, which, unless you just have min sec prisoners, isn't really what they were aiming for in this game. Other than that, you don't really lose anything by the odd extra snitch being killed (heck, it even frees up another spot in your prison which you can fill with another prisoner, getting the intake bonus for that).


As far as the general idea goes, I think it would be interesting to have more types of prisoner, particularly if that combined with them having more specific needs that you had to balance and take care of. I don't think the suggestion as it stands would get anywhere though, seeing as they were reluctant enough to put in execution, which they knew there was no way around if they wanted a full simulation. They're not going to get as specific as putting in rapists and making a big deal out of that through traits, etc. Maybe something more general like "extreme offender" (well, I know I suck at naming already) might work, not being hugely specific, but saying that they're much more likely to start fights/problems and have a good chance of being attacked by other prisoners (perhaps even other PC prisoners to make that an extra challenge?).

[Sumurai8]

More flavour text? Hey, that's fine with me. I might not read it all, but I don't mind.

But I do have a problem with having more vulnerable prisoners. Look, I like the challenge, but it's annoying to have to call in my CIs everyday after 8AM to see if any of the new arrivals require protective custody. We need an easier way of figuring out who's in danger.

I would disagree. It's not only unrealistic, but it'd make the entire system trivial if when a prisoner shows up, they automatically flash up with a big "I need to be in protective custody" sign over their heads. You already find out the traits of 50% of the prisoners as they come into your prison, making that any easier would defeat the object of the exercise. Bear in mind you don't have to send in your CIs every day and figure out if a particular prisoner needs protecting - with smaller cell blocks and adequate guards, your other prisoners may not even have a chance to kill them. Even if they do, there's no long-term penalty to it unless you were hoping to have a 100-day no incident streak, which, unless you just have min sec prisoners, isn't really what they were aiming for in this game. Other than that, you don't really lose anything by the odd extra snitch being killed (heck, it even frees up another spot in your prison which you can fill with another prisoner, getting the intake bonus for that).


As far as the general idea goes, I think it would be interesting to have more types of prisoner, particularly if that combined with them having more specific needs that you had to balance and take care of. I don't think the suggestion as it stands would get anywhere though, seeing as they were reluctant enough to put in execution, which they knew there was no way around if they wanted a full simulation. They're not going to get as specific as putting in rapists and making a big deal out of that through traits, etc. Maybe something more general like "extreme offender" (well, I know I suck at naming already) might work, not being hugely specific, but saying that they're much more likely to start fights/problems and have a good chance of being attacked by other prisoners (perhaps even other PC prisoners to make that an extra challenge?).

If you don't, your vulnerable prisoner will die during next yard time. In a max/supermax prison it usually takes only 1 hit to kill someone else. While you are not sure about the traits of a prisoner, other prisoners seem to have no trouble figuring it out on the spot.

[Amitiel]

They'll only try to kill a snitch or ex-law enforcement if you have no guards nearby. Even in the worst parts of my prisons, it's very rare that a snitch dies on their first day.

Either way, it's still designed as a trade-off - spend time building up your CIs and make sure you have the intelligence or risk the occasional death. There aren't huge benefits or penalties either way.

EDIT: If it troubles anyone that much, you do also have the option to throw everyone with unidentified traits into PC until you figure them out.

[MMZ>Torak]

I'd like to see the ability to automagically move prisoners with known problem reputations (ie: not ???) into appropriate confines. If they come in as a known snitch, my guards should move them to PC right away. Wouldn't it be a human rights violation to knowingly put a prisoner into a dangerous situation? Who puts ex cops into Gen Pop by default unless it is some bad prison movie...

[Amitiel]

Depends on how you have your prison set up, really. Your min sec prisoners will basically never touch snitches, so they're perfectly fine going into there (the last time I set up a prison, I started with ~100 min sec prisoners, about 5% of which were snitches/law enforcement and I never had a single problem with any of them). If your prison and regime are designed in such a way that your min sec prisoners never come into contact with your normal or high sec prisoners, chances are you could get away with not having anyone in protective custody.

[MMZ>Torak]

Depends on how you have your prison set up, really. Your min sec prisoners will basically never touch snitches, so they're perfectly fine going into there (the last time I set up a prison, I started with ~100 min sec prisoners, about 5% of which were snitches/law enforcement and I never had a single problem with any of them). If your prison and regime are designed in such a way that your min sec prisoners never come into contact with your normal or high sec prisoners, chances are you could get away with not having anyone in protective custody.

That only handles Min Sec. What if they come in as a known Ex Law Enforcement to normal security? I don't really have a problem with the unknown rep and CI mechanism, but to knowingly and intentionally put a prisoner in danger really does not sit well with me. Lets not even mention the Cop Killers. They don't ever seem to last very long regardless of where they get put.

[Amitiel]

I didn't actually mean that as to say that you can ignore it happily because people come in as min sec. I meant that as to say that players can find that instead of building costly separate PC wings, it's simpler to throw people into min sec. It really isn't that much effort to check what's coming in in a morning and react accordingly and with how everything else is set up in the game, I don't feel it should hand-hold that much. Maybe it would make sense to have an expanded prisoner tab so you can filter by people's reputations, misdemeanours, remaining sentence length, etc. and as such be able to check that your prisoners with certain reputations are in the right space, but having the game automatically deal with and protect prisoners as they come in seems like it both makes the player's job too easy and also starts to assume too much about what they want to do.

[Currie]

It's not only unrealistic, but it'd make the entire system trivial if when a prisoner shows up, they automatically flash up with a big "I need to be in protective custody" sign over their heads.

No, the current system is wildly unrealistic. Wildly, wildly unrealistic.

It's unrealistic that we need prisoners to figure out who is an ex-cop. The authorities should be the ones giving me this information, not prisoners. Realistically, the authorities would have a ton of records about this sort of thing.

The same goes for snitches. If a prisoner cooperated with the authorities, then the authorities should say so. Instead, we have to rely on snitches to figure out who the other snitches are. It's outright kafkaesque!

But somehow, the authorities always seem to know who is tough or who happens to be a particularly fast runner.

Bear in mind you don't have to send in your CIs every day and figure out if a particular prisoner needs protecting - with smaller cell blocks and adequate guards, your other prisoners may not even have a chance to kill them.

I agree, but you have to admit that it gets a lot harder as your prison gets bigger. For example, in my prison, I have a large canteen for 200 prisoners. It is staffed by six guards and one K9. When the guards react to the metal detectors at the entrance, prisoners at the opposite end of the canteen become vulnerable.

So to counter this, I have to summon my CIs every day at 8AM because, quite unrealistically, they always seem to know everything about every new prisoner before they even clear reception. I gotta say, it's becoming quite the chore.

[Dodo]

There are so many different little suggestions that everyone may come up with at some point in time, often which make the gameplay better for them, but not as fun for someone else.

Some people like to do the micromanaging of the prison, some people like to use blanket rules.

If it isn't too difficult to implement, can't we simply add in the 'option' for either case?

[Person012345]

They'll only try to kill a snitch or ex-law enforcement if you have no guards nearby. Even in the worst parts of my prisons, it's very rare that a snitch dies on their first day.

Either way, it's still designed as a trade-off - spend time building up your CIs and make sure you have the intelligence or risk the occasional death. There aren't huge benefits or penalties either way.

EDIT: If it troubles anyone that much, you do also have the option to throw everyone with unidentified traits into PC until you figure them out.

It's not even hard to get good CI's. I have like 4 100% CIs in my prison and they're all in for another 20 - 60 years. My current plan is to keep 4 and when one leaves, find a fresh new potential CI with a long sentence, recruit him and let him just gain information.

[Currie]

It's not even hard to get good CI's. I have like 4 100% CIs in my prison and they're all in for another 20 - 60 years. My current plan is to keep 4 and when one leaves, find a fresh new potential CI with a long sentence, recruit him and let him just gain information.

I think that's overpowered. No single prisoner should know absolutely everything about the prison.

And, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's also unrealistic.

I also have CIs with 100% coverage, and I don't see how they could possibly know things about inmates they're completely cut-off from.

My protective custody (PC) wing, for example, is an almost self-sustaining prison within a prison. Yet a CI who has never set foot in that part of the prison, who has never even seen a prisoner from PC, somehow knows that inmates in PC are collecting spoons as a hobby.