Execution leads to more deaths...

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Ratataz
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Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Ratataz » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:55 pm

hey everyone,

after alpha 31 i loaded up my 600+ max/supermax and now death row facility to test the new stuff out. i build everything i needed, got death row inmates and after a few failed paroles with a 7% clemency chance i hit the button. thinking it would save me trouble i set the execution up at 1 am, so everyone would be in their cell sleeping. but NO they all suddenly woke up and got more agitated every minute, until finally a few supermax inmates ticked out and got shot. The Lockdown really f... up my prison!

i know you wanted to make death row non-trivial but please this is just insane. i now have 6 dead prisoners because of one execution. by the way, as my supermax mainly consists of deadly legendary, a non-firearm solution after a reload killed 8 guards instead.

edit: i posted the prison in the steam workshop under " 600+ max/supermax/death row", so you can see for yourself.
whathopercy
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby whathopercy » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:47 pm

I also noted that during the video. For the execution, prisoners should be limited in their actions somehow. Maybe they could all be suppressed for the duration of the operation.
Ratataz
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Ratataz » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:54 pm

whathopercy wrote:I also noted that during the video. For the execution, prisoners should be limited in their actions somehow. Maybe they could all be suppressed for the duration of the operation.


or just not force lockdown, wouldn't it make much more sense NOT to inform your whole prison via a siren signal that you going to kill someone right f......... now? i read in a book that this is literally what they do in North Korean prisons to scare the shit out of the inmates.
Ratataz
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Ratataz » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:56 am

aaaaaaaaaaand i hit a new low. as the lockdown took more than 10h to complete, stuck at 99%, it started a riot that killed 35 prisoners,3 guards and a dog. the death row inmate itself could not be executed. this is not working!
PathogenQ
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby PathogenQ » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:46 am

It would just be better to design specific sections of your prison to be off-limit for non-death row prisoners during execution, that way you could have clean corridor, without any prisoners, leading straight to the execution room.
Ratataz
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Ratataz » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:46 pm

PathogenQ wrote:It would just be better to design specific sections of your prison to be off-limit for non-death row prisoners during execution, that way you could have clean corridor, without any prisoners, leading straight to the execution room.


fun fact: i already did pretty much exactly this, i made a completely separate wing for the death row. but sure, why not have a riot in the opposite side of my prison, that i couldn't do much about because i was stuck in the execution ui........
and no, it's not my fault for having a high tension prison. i have like 30+ volatile or extremely volatile prisoners that will kick off for ANY reason, and for super fun most of them are legendary so they are either deadly or though or both, turning a multiple hour lockdown into a guaranteed riot. =/
PathogenQ
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby PathogenQ » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:23 pm

Ratataz wrote:
PathogenQ wrote:It would just be better to design specific sections of your prison to be off-limit for non-death row prisoners during execution, that way you could have clean corridor, without any prisoners, leading straight to the execution room.


fun fact: i already did pretty much exactly this, i made a completely separate wing for the death row. but sure, why not have a riot in the opposite side of my prison, that i couldn't do much about because i was stuck in the execution ui........
and no, it's not my fault for having a high tension prison. i have like 30+ volatile or extremely volatile prisoners that will kick off for ANY reason, and for super fun most of them are legendary so they are either deadly or though or both, turning a multiple hour lockdown into a guaranteed riot. =/



I meant that DEVs should implement a need to designate a complete connection between DR cells and execution room, it would work as shared but in time of execution everyone would be kicked out and allow the prisoner to be escorted to the execution room.

Sorry for bad wording in the first place.
It was a suggestion to implement rather than solution for how to build DR right now .;)
Ratataz
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Ratataz » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:03 pm

PathogenQ wrote:
Ratataz wrote:
PathogenQ wrote:It would just be better to design specific sections of your prison to be off-limit for non-death row prisoners during execution, that way you could have clean corridor, without any prisoners, leading straight to the execution room.


fun fact: i already did pretty much exactly this, i made a completely separate wing for the death row. but sure, why not have a riot in the opposite side of my prison, that i couldn't do much about because i was stuck in the execution ui........
and no, it's not my fault for having a high tension prison. i have like 30+ volatile or extremely volatile prisoners that will kick off for ANY reason, and for super fun most of them are legendary so they are either deadly or though or both, turning a multiple hour lockdown into a guaranteed riot. =/



I meant that DEVs should implement a need to designate a complete connection between DR cells and execution room, it would work as shared but in time of execution everyone would be kicked out and allow the prisoner to be escorted to the execution room.

Sorry for bad wording in the first place.
It was a suggestion to implement rather than solution for how to build DR right now .;)


oh sorry, no problem. i guess i'm just a bit frustrated, after pouring 54h into my max prison i first had to see it almost go bankrupt because of the new income system and now an incomplete death row almost rips it apart with riots. =/ i can see why the devs focus on a more "in the middle" aspect with min/normal and a few max sec where programs work and you can reform them, but imho the more experienced players will ultimately go for a pure max/supermax facility the "end game" of prison architect. My point being that at the moment, this "end game" is not really working which is a real pity because the game is great!
memory020
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby memory020 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:50 pm

One problem is that prisoners reading when a execution is called stop moving completely, and are just stuck there. I had to forcibly put them in lockdown to do anything.
Person012345
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Person012345 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:07 pm

Ratataz wrote:aaaaaaaaaaand i hit a new low. as the lockdown took more than 10h to complete, stuck at 99%, it started a riot that killed 35 prisoners,3 guards and a dog. the death row inmate itself could not be executed. this is not working!

How the hell did you get a riot when 99% of prisoners were in their cells. I have never had a riot during a lockdown, having plenty of guards patrolling the cells means they can put down trouble the moment someone kicks off and prisoners can be dealt with 1 at a time. Add an armed patrol to each block and it's even more secure.

My last execution took an excessive amount of time because prisoners were being transferred to and from solitary for some reason, yes I heard tazers going off all over the prison, and my prisoners are STILL pissed off from it. Yet the only person to die was the DR inmate. My first execution was much smoother for some reason, no-one seemed particularly mad (maybe it was the time I chose to do it).
xlr8films
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby xlr8films » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:22 pm

I think the main trick is to determine (in a large prison at least) when inside your regime your inmates are most calm. For me, it's around 2:30pm. They're tired after last chow and about 2 bars into the scale, so night executions aren't a possibility.
christhekiller
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby christhekiller » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:18 pm

It would be so much simpler if the game just figured out the path your Death Row inmate would take and would force that area to be clear of all non-essential personnel. Ie, even paroling guards would clear out. It seems silly to lock down your whole prison just for an execution imo. But clearing a hallway and making sure no one goes into/ through it would be so much better
Ratataz
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Ratataz » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:49 pm

Person012345 wrote:
Ratataz wrote:aaaaaaaaaaand i hit a new low. as the lockdown took more than 10h to complete, stuck at 99%, it started a riot that killed 35 prisoners,3 guards and a dog. the death row inmate itself could not be executed. this is not working!

How the hell did you get a riot when 99% of prisoners were in their cells. I have never had a riot during a lockdown, having plenty of guards patrolling the cells means they can put down trouble the moment someone kicks off and prisoners can be dealt with 1 at a time. Add an armed patrol to each block and it's even more secure.

My last execution took an excessive amount of time because prisoners were being transferred to and from solitary for some reason, yes I heard tazers going off all over the prison, and my prisoners are STILL pissed off from it. Yet the only person to die was the DR inmate. My first execution was much smoother for some reason, no-one seemed particularly mad (maybe it was the time I chose to do it).


if you have enough volatile prisoners it's really easy to have a riot, as the game seems to count more than five (and for fun 1% of my prison means six inmates) rebelling prisoners in the same cell block as a riot, igniting even the not volatile ones. and have fun putting a riot of ~30 legendary (most of which will ignore up to three tazer hits) prisoners down.

and yes the "pick the calmest time"- approach seems reasonable until you realize it actually wakes up all your peacefully sleeping prisoners,instantly turning them into rage mode. I think it's a simple matter of size, the bigger the prison the bigger the issues you will have with the forced lockdown.
Darkrious1
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby Darkrious1 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:44 pm

Happens to me all the time... Lockdown step gets to 97% and then just stops, why? Because about a dozen or so prisoners are bookworms that can't be bothered to put their books down to go to their cells. I mean really? Oh, look the prison is locking down I think I'll just go to the library and grab a page turner then go sit in the yard and read not minding any thing else... And of course your camera is locked on the prisoner to be excuted and you have no other control options to make the prisoner(s) go to his cell(s). Really annoying.

Doing Executions at night during sleep sounds like a good idea, but apparently for some people even this isn't true. Using the 'lockup' instead of 'sleep' period in the regieme seems to navigate this problem for now. They'll still go to sleep, if they are tired enough, but won't be woken up because it's tecnhnically lockdown any way. But I do agree some fixes need to be made to make the lockdown step more quicker and efficient.
dapullia
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Re: Execution leads to more deaths...

Postby dapullia » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:45 pm

As I have said in another post, there is usually a two step escort process which occurs 24 hours before the actual execution occurs. The phase 1 process is that prisons (in the US for example) have special cells that are usually located right next to the execution chamber or either right down the hall per say. Normally, this cell is actually isolated as part of the execution suite and is separated from the main death row cells and the rest of the prison. This gives them a place where they can allow the family in to visit, spiritual leaders, and give the person their last meal. Generally, a lock down would not be necessary during this phase. This make is so that the person can be watched for suicide attempts as well to ensure they make it to the execution chamber alive. The prisons do tend to lock down but maybe 6 hours or so ahead of time. Some do lock down the prisoners for 24 hours straight and tell them to just deal with it but they continue to meet the prisoner's needs. Food is delivered to the cells during this time, etc. The final escort which in PA goes from the death row cell would actually begin at the death watch cell and lasts just a few minutes due to proximity. The solution here would be to require that the execution chamber includes a death watch cell similar to the tutorial execution chamber build out. When you schedule the execution, the prisoner is moved to that cell to wait basically as a normal prisoner move.

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