Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

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Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby wildbillhdmax01 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:06 am

This is some of the last Suggestions before, PA is completed this year. I do have to say that I'm a little concerned about PA being completed this year. I know that Chris and Jonny, etc have put a lot in to this game over the years and I thank you. I am Afraid thought that a lot of features that have been requested over and over again might be left out. Like Gangs, Watchtowers, bunkbeds, multi floors etc.They still need to even have to do the campaign.

Now these are my last Suggestions before, PA is finished. Now I've posted a thread back in Jan of 2013, and a lot of my Suggestions were eventually put into the game.

Watchtowers

Now from what I've seen this has been suggestion to appoint to be used to spot nighttime escapes. I think it's a great idea but I would like to add upon it. The idea was to have spotlights to use the spot these escapes. This would be a new type of escape. Now I think to be a very cool and good idea not only to have these watchtowers have spotlights but and also be manned. It would be a great idea if the spotlights were to go back and forth among the ground like real guard towers do, but it should be required for to be manned. In other words for you to assign guards to that watchtower.

With that I think would also be nice if with these watchtowers you can also have these guards armed with sniper rifles. A basic rifle with a scope on it that will be used to wound, kill or even threaten prisoners. The idea would be for you to assign guards to these watchtowers and you could have them armed. It would be nice if you could assign 1 to 3 guards to watchtower, And to have the choice if you want them to be armed. Now with this they should be able to wound a prisoner to stop them from escaping. Or to even have him kill the prisoner.

With this it would be cool if you could deploy where it determines a guard decides to threaten a prisoner, to wound a prisoner, and were to kill a prisoner. In other words you would Mark what zones are the kill zones, threaten zones, and the wound zones. In now so-called threaten zone. This is where if a guard was to spot prisoner. He/She would point such rifle and threatens the prisoner to stay where he is or he will be shot. If the prisoner gets to the wound zone the guard will try to shoot the prisoner to wound him. To get him to stop escaping. If a prisoner gets the kill zone. The guard will go for the kill shot, no questions, shoot first.

Now with this there should be different watchtowers. Smaller towers will have less spotlights and less guards that can man it. While medium or even just skip to big watchtowers. Can have more men manned and more spotlights.

Additional floors.

I've even seen it talked about on the Facebook page from someone at Introversion, to talk to Chris about it.

People have suggested everything from a second floor, to a sub basement, and a third floor. I think that a second, third and sub basement floor would be something really cool to add to this game. Could be really cool if the sub basement was used for stuff like generators and water pumps water filtration and waste management. Some people asked for climate. This would be the place to put heaters and boilers and stuff like that. A roof would be really top-notch. This would be where you could have guards with rifles walking around the perimeter of the roof and air conditioning units! As for now. It's been about building out, and after A while the prison get far to spread out for the AI, sometime it take way too long to get from Place A to B! Why Not Just Build up? Why waste money on a new land? Just use what you already have. Many Prisons in major cities have done this.

Climate

I think this would been a great Idea. It would be a new utility. With this you're staff would get tired much more quickly if it was cold or even hot.This would also be a new need for prisoners. If I was cold it would make them more likely to jump off. Same with Heat. With this you would have heaters and boilers, air conditioning units, and air duct which can be used and help escapes.

Also weather like rain, fog, etc will make it easier for prisoners to escape. This will add onto escape.

Weather

How about some weather to go with Climate? You can have Rain and shine. Cold, and Hot. Snow, that slows people down if not shoveled. This could be a new a Prison labor. Snow would also make it harder for Prisoners to escape. This is also something that people have been wanting aslo people have even made a mode or two, although that have been abandoned.

Different quality of items and more Items

In the common room I would like to have it that you can choose different types of TVs. A smaller TV will give less needs. While a bigger nicer TV gives more needs and faster.

We also need more items common room. Like video games being able to play chess and other things among those lines. Computers etc.

One thing with offices is that they all always look the same and boring. The wardens office should require a nicer desk chair computer and something else of different items for his office. Same thing with the accountant require other items that go along with her type of job. Same as all the other employees that require an office.

Security rooms

The security room should be a place that can be used as a checkpoint. Be used by guards. Maybe hold a smaller stash of equipment. They should make a security stronger in that area. In other words make it more unlikely prisoners get into fights around those areas. Should be like a strong point.

Command center

A new room should be a command center of sort. This should be where CCTV cameras monitors could also go. So you can put them in either one. Where intercom equipment is stored. Once again they should have to be manned. Should also have your communication equipment and so on. This should be wear your wiretapping should go, also can also be use for the door control, this should be a choice as with the CCTV. Either Command center or Security rooms can use them.

Intercoms

Intercoms should be used for announcements and communication and whatever else you think of they could be used for.

Cells

Some people have already asked for nicer cells for better more behaved lesser security prisoners. I am 100% behind this idea. You should be able to make and sell nicer with such thing as shelves for them to put books. Allow them to be able to draw. To paint and many other activities within their cells to make their time easier. Also an indicator, telling us how nice a cell is. From bare minimums to excellent. Also bunkbeds to have 2 prisoners to 1 cell.

Mounted guards

The idea that would be really awesome. Is if you could have guards mounted on horses. Have guards patrol an area with a shotgun while riding a horse. These would be expensive but would work much better than dog to catch escapees, they would be much faster, and even deadly.

Layers of fences, electric fences, Razor wire, and Floodlights

Now if we go back to my previous idea about the guard towers in the different zones. It would be cool to have electric fences, fences, and barb wire rows. In which to determine those zones. Also be have a great place to have mounted guards patrolling guards on foot and even guard dogs. Also Floodlights. To do what Floodlights do. Flood with light... This would go back the the Idea of a new type of escape. Going over the wire which has happen many times in real life.

Blueprints

More options in the blueprints. For example being able to mark different rooms. I have to always mark my rooms with a letter representing a certain room. And a lot of times it's frustrating and hard to make a certain letter or letters if the room is too small. Maybe make where doors go! Also maybe be able to blueprint objects lights something. Something to be able to really plan out your prison.

Cigarettes and other pleasure items.

Prisoners should be allowed cigarettes, pop/soda/soft drinks, gum, chips, candy, sweets and other items of pleasure.

The yard

There needs to be more items for exercise and working out. Equipment for exercising and working out. Definitely need a basketball court basketball court. Needs to have more used to it.

Roll call

A roll call with the prisoners outside their cells and guards walking up and down make sure everybody's there and to check cells for contraband escape plots etc.

Prison walls and catwalks

A new special prison wall. Maybe with catwalks that guards can patrol. Maybe going between building to building from roof to roof etc. Catwalks from building to building or on the side of buildings. Catwalks on upper floors in building where Armed guards can sit and watch over prisoners.

Prison Store

For those who either get money from the outside(From Family, Friends, etc.), or have a job in the Prison can get money into his account which he can use to buy stuff from the store.

MAX Security for the Worst of the worst!

This is where you put the worst of your Prisoners, the meanest and deadliest. Where they get their food brought to them, and only come out of their cell for one hour for exercise.

Non- lethal, and crowed control

The big thing here is when a big fight happen your guards are usually killed if you don't have an Armed guard. These fight can get out of hand, and even start riots. I would like to see, tear gas, flash bangs, helmets, Riot gear, riot shields, beanbag guns/pellet guns/nonlethal weapon, gas masks, and Rubber Pellet Grenades to use in crowed control and or riots. They can be stored in the Amory. And only used when this get a little out of hand. Calling in the Riot Police should always be a last resort(Like in real life), not just call them at the 1st sign of trouble.
Last edited by wildbillhdmax01 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby Roy974 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:27 pm

All good and agree with them all, I would like to add 1 more though.:D

Functioning Delete Key:
Everyone has had a storage full of things they no longer need and for most people its lights. 1 thing I did by accident was added remote doors to solitary not realising my mistake till a huge amount of prisoners was awaiting solitary and no one was been taken there. Having to select each individual item and then selecting dump was a pain. I would love to be able to click on an item (even if it requires it to be dismantled first) and hit the delete key on the keyboard to dump the said items, would be quicker and easier.
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby knoest26 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:18 pm

usually we encourage players to post individual suggestions in individual threads to make it easier to discus but since this list is everything I want from PA I suggest we just print this out and send it to IV as their new to-do list
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby lugaru » Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:50 pm

Yup, basically the only thing I think is not feasible and I'm not sure if I want is multiple floors. I'm old enough to have played a lot of 2d games with multiple floors and having a 'switch floor button' is usually the only means.

The only thing I did not see (or missed) on your list is a big increase in medical status effects.

Stuff like lice or bedbugs, work injuries, permanent injuries from fights (small chance of making a prisoner move slower), food poisoning, flu outbreaks, derangement from solitary, etc. It would make your medical staff very important and worth expanding on and give your prison a lot more 'random' personality. "Oh yeah, this is the game where half my prison was in bed with a high fever".
Last edited by lugaru on Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby ElSalvaje » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:55 pm

Yeah nice list. I'm sure we'll see some of these suggestions being implemented.

Have my doubts about multiple floors though. I've read somewhere they won't do that. I don't think it will work out very well either.

Roy974 wrote:All good and agree with them all, I would like to add 1 more though.:D

Functioning Delete Key:
Everyone has had a storage full of things they no longer need and for most people its lights. 1 thing I did by accident was added remote doors to solitary not realising my mistake till a huge amount of prisoners was awaiting solitary and no one was been taken there. Having to select each individual item and then selecting dump was a pain. I would love to be able to click on an item (even if it requires it to be dismantled first) and hit the delete key on the keyboard to dump the said items, would be quicker and easier.


You can use the "clear indoor area" button for that. The whole area you select with that will get dumped (but watch out for the walls, your workmen will tear them down as well :D).
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby StefanoG » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:56 am

I agree with all ..Great ideas .

Introversion guys should delay the release date and finish the game properly .
That's too pity if the game will be left half .
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby wildbillhdmax01 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:09 pm

Thanks for all of the kind world everyone, glade people like the ideas.

knoest26 wrote:usually we encourage players to post individual suggestions in individual threads to make it easier to discus but since this list is everything I want from PA I suggest we just print this out and send it to IV as their new to-do list

Yea, I don't post very often on here, even though I've been here since Alpha 10. Everytime i come back they're different rule for posting Suggestions. Also glad you like the ideas. I hope most of them get implemented.

lugaru wrote:The only thing I did not see (or missed) on your list is a big increase in medical status effects.

Stuff like lice or bedbugs, work injuries, permanent injuries from fights (small chance of making a prisoner move slower), food poisoning, flu outbreaks, derangement from solitary, etc. It would make your medical staff very important and worth expanding on and give your prison a lot more 'random' personality. "Oh yeah, this is the game where half my prison was in bed with a high fever".


As for medical, I agree! People have been asking for a big expansion in medical. This have been a long over do request. I really hope they do something to add more depth the medical system!



Now as for the multiple floors this was a very popular idea at one point that people wanted. Now Introversion did take some interest, but not sure if anything came of it. It would be really sad not see this done. It could really add a lot to the game.
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby dreadicon » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:19 pm

I do really like this list, but there are a couple pretty major things I think that have been left out...

Major: Gangs
So, with all the features you mentioned above, and secure interactions, the prison is going to get a lot easier to manage, honestly. That's why things like gangs are needed, to make your prison ever-changing and more challenging in the face of all these new tools. Gangs could vary in size, and benefit the prisoners in them by allowing them to take care of multiple needs at once. For example, when with their gang, the prisoner will slowly improve, or at least halt increasing of psychological needs. gangs forced to eat at the same table, compete for the same equipment, etc, could become violent quickly. The complicated aspect of this is how to manage it as the player. Perhaps using CIs to identify leaders, and then moving them to supermax, or even a new kind of zone, as well as the option to try to break up the gangs sending members to different parts of your prison as much as the AI is able so they have less contact, along with therapy if desired. New traits like 'gang member' and 'ex-gang member' which influence how likely they are to join gangs. And then traits like 'Charismatic' or 'Tough Leader' which can inspire others to follow them. Maybe gangs could even have moods or tendencies; some gangs might be looking to behave and accept their sentence with their goal being to keep things safe and orderly, while more commonly they are more 'tribal' and potentially volatile, and rarely, you may get one that is organized by someone highly skilled and intelligent, which leads me to the third big one...

Major: Elaborate Escapes
I know they are rare IRL, but they do happen, or are attempted at least. Prisoner(s) lay out a plan, and try to carry it out, hoping they considered all the variables. They may get outside help, or they may try to pull it off entirely inside the prison. They may work alone or, more often, in groups. They could target the power grid, or force the water to drain and use the large pipes to get to an outside wall where an accomplice has thrown a rope over the wall, cut a hole in the fence, or even set off a bomb. They might bribe or drug guards, and so on. The possibilities are nearly limitless. I know it's a big thing to ask for, but it would make the game so much deeper to plan, no matter how many tools to keep prisoners in we are given. This one aspect, imho, is the most dramatic and crucial feature for the game. I want to care where I put my power network, where I put my staff who could be taken hostage, etc.

Minor Item: Secure Interactions
Think of visitation with prisoners, and for med-high sec, you usually think of the glass shield with telephones. Prisoners wouldnt be as happy with it, but it'd mean anything passed to the prisoner had been searched (though items may get through, at least it's very unlikely). Next think of how one might build a max sec Canteen. Similarly to the visitation, a glass shield where they drop treys/pots, making the chefs substantially more safe, and meaning your kitchen can be efficient without being an escape route.

Minor Item: Tunnels Mechanic Improvement
Why do I have to manually remove the toilets and replace them? Cell blocks can have over 70 prisoners in them, that's up to 70 toilets I have to manually remove (as searching them seems to have a low chance of finding the tunnel). Why don't they dig under their bed? Why not in other out-of-sight parts of the prison like an unwatched yard? why do the guards never spot something amiss when they walk by a cell where the prisoner is digging? Why can't I have someone dig for the tunnel with a chance of uncovering it when a dog had flagged the same spot 5 times? I wish I could have my guards focus on tunnels rather than contraband for a block-wide search giving a better chance of finding tunnels. Where do they put all the dirt if you keep your prison clean? If I have sand fields outside and only concrete inside, wouldnt it be hard for them to hide the dirt as they make for the outer perimeter tunneling? As of now, I feel like I have to fight tunnels with a hand tied behind my back (before dogs and CIs, it was like having both hands tied!). I hope we are given more ability to either automate the process, tunnels become more rare, or more manual control of it.

Minor item: list prisoners by need
It would be really handy to show a list of all prisoners who have outstanding specific needs. Say I click on sleep, I would get a list of those who have sleep needs. Maybe I could filter by security level? What about a list of prisoners awaiting parole? Prisoners who have serious complaints? and so on. The information is all there, it's not like this would give the player new information they didn't have, but it takes tedium to sort it all out currently. Could even make it locked till researched. Psychologist could use some research, after all.

Minor Item: strip-search/"processing"
so, I know this one is a little controversial, but many nations allow for prisoners to be strip searched, hair cut/shaved, etc. I would like this optionally default for new prisoners, as well as prisoners moving up in security, or if they have X offenses or as an optional punishment policy. It would have a very high chance of finding anything on them (around 95-99%), and both agitate them and apply a very light suppressive effect (contradictory, but that's how it typically works. it's fairly humiliating despite being purposeful and physically harmless).

Minor Item: more misbehaviors/fence climbing
if I say that field with only a fence standing between it and freedom is staff only, and leave the door to it open, how many prisoners are going to listen to that? probably half, if you're lucky. Also, some prisoners will attempt to climb a barbed wire fence, disregarding injury. There are lots of things prisoners do in pure defiance as well, such as stirring up other inmmates or shouting/arguing with guards, so I would really like to see the misconducts variety increased, and for fences to not be an impassable (except by tunnels) barrier.

Minor/mod Item: mental illness
so, a high percentage of prisoners are mentally ill (especially the max and super-max). Mild Schizophrenia, paranoia, bipolar, ocd, depression, psychopathy, among many others. Perhaps these could be added like traits? it could even just use the psychological cluster (cluster A mental illness, cluster B mental illness, etc) so as to not be explicit/offensive. But this could be modded, I am sure, so not a big deal.

Wow, that ended up longer than I thought. But that's my wish list that isn't covered by what you posted. While I think weather/climate/heating/cooling are neat mechanics and could add to the game, I am not sure they are worth the development time/effort compared to the other mechanics, mostly because it's just yet another utility to connect the dots with. Sure, it's fun, and would add management/architect-y aspects, but there are plenty of those out there, what there isn't is a game where you have to think hard to keep people where you want them for extended periods, and that's where prison architect comes in imho. Also, more item diversity is more appropriately solved with mods (again imho); I would really like functionality additions and core game balance from Introversion. Also, while I like the idea of the command room, we already kindof have that in the security room (which currently exists). A mod exists for more blueprint stuff, though adding more to the core game based on that should be easy enough.
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby Nibejeebies » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:19 am

I support 95% of the original poster's ideas
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby eyebrowns » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:21 am

I only want be able to make prison from Escape plan film.

wildbillhdmax01 wrote:Watchtowers
...
Additional floors
...
Climate
...
Security rooms
...
Command center
...
Intercoms
...
Cells

Some people have already asked for nicer cells
...
Mounted guards
...
Layers of fences, electric fences, Razor wire, and Floodlights
...
The yard

There needs to be more items for exercise and working out. Equipment for exercising and working out. Definitely need a basketball court basketball court. Needs to have more used to it.
...
Roll call
...

Watchtowers. Its seems to be partially implemented. Dont think developers gonna drop that thing. But adding this feature may remove completely escape possibility and break thin game balance. There are lot of work to do in spotlight of developers releasing plans.
Additional floors. I suggest only implement that partially, like it made in The Escapist. Extra floors will add engine calculations amount. As it seems game engine not fit that much load. It is possible way for developers is to change game balance to force players be in big trouble at making too big prisons.
Climate.Totally agree only in extra escaping ways context. And weather will make game more atmosphere.
Security rooms. Totally unobvious explanation. This is not how its going. Main functionality already implemented.
Intercoms. It may add more atmosphere. Or become annoying.
Cells. Prison is not hotel, okay?
Mounted guards. Agree. Extra price for extra speed. Catch them!
Layers of fences, electric fences, Razor wire, and Floodlights. This is good idea to implement with more deep escaping system. Prisoner may be forced to turn off elecricity first before climbing over fence.
The yard. Must see it!
Roll call. This may break game balance.
Prison Store. Store, nicer sells, climate, pleasure items... theme hotel.
MAX Security for the Worst of the worst!. You can make seperate regime for SuperMax with separate canteen, shower, yard.
Non- lethal, and crowed control. Good idea.


wildbillhdmax01 wrote:Major: Gangs
...
Major: Elaborate Escapes
...

Major: Gangs. As i seen in base-language.txt file developers wanted to implement that or have plans. Overwise it is obviously great idea. I seen real prison with entire gangs town inside with different gangs and rules. Awesome!
Major: Elaborate Escapes. Obviously good idea to make escaping system more deep and difficult to track. Watch film Escape plan.
Minor Item: Secure Interactions. Yes, contraband tracking sometimes annoying. I nearly want to shakedown each 5 minutes. But its stupid. I hope it will not break game balance.
Minor Item: Tunnels Mechanic Improvement. Yes, good idea of making escaping through tunnels more obvious.
Minor item: list prisoners by need. Looks like very personal need of you.
Minor Item: strip-search/"processing". Put dam metal detector with dog on enter.
Minor Item: more misbehaviors/fence climbing. As been said before it is good idea to improve escaping system with electrical and other fences.
Minor/mod Item: mental illness. Asylum?
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby wildbillhdmax01 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:54 am

eyebrowns wrote:Cells. Prison is not hotel, okay?

This does happen in real Prisons. I've seen people with radios, TV, etc, in their cells.

Layers of fences, electric fences, Razor wire, and Floodlights. This is good idea to implement with more deep escaping system. Prisoner may be forced to turn off elecricity first before climbing over fence.


eyebrowns wrote:Prison Store. Store, nicer sells, climate, pleasure items... theme hotel
.
I've also seen store in which prisonors are alowed once a week to go to the store any buy stuff like food, candy, pop, soap, deodorant, etc....
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby Marlle » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:34 pm

Pretty much agrees on everything posted here except multifloors
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby GamingBud » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:47 pm

I must add to the weather idea...

There could be tornadoes (Shelters for that), hail storms (Shelters for that too), blizzards, you name it. I was also thinking of clothing for the laundry prison labour. You have a new option in prison policy that will allow you to change clothing to go to the laundry. If you don't have warm clothing for prisoners, they will get cold when outside. Opposite for heat waves.

Prisoners, when outside, will get hot, or cold depending on the weather, and wet if raining. There should be new needs that rise when in a heat wave, rain, or hail storm. In hail storms, prisoners should have a 1/10 chance of getting damaged every couple of seconds when outdoors.

In tornadoes, concrete material should have a 1/4 chance of not being destroyed when a tornado is sucking it up, brick should have 1/6, and shelters should have a 9/10 chance of not being destroyed when a tornado is right over it.
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby lugaru » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:04 pm

Another core thing that really needs to be updated is Prisoner Memory.

Basically prisoners learn from mistakes, hold grudges, establish friendships, etc. I think it is critical to implementing gangs, but also to actually 'teach' prisoners a lesson... I would say after they get caught by a metal detector enough times, they might stop stealing from that room for example.
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Re: Last [SUGGESTIONS] before PA is completed!

Postby GamingBud » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:15 pm

GamingBud wrote:I must add to the weather idea...

There could be tornadoes (Shelters for that), hail storms (Shelters for that too), blizzards, you name it. I was also thinking of clothing for the laundry prison labour. You have a new option in prison policy that will allow you to change clothing to go to the laundry. If you don't have warm clothing for prisoners, they will get cold when outside. Opposite for heat waves.

Prisoners, when outside, will get hot, or cold depending on the weather, and wet if raining. There should be new needs that rise when in a heat wave, rain, or hail storm. In hail storms, prisoners should have a 1/10 chance of getting damaged every couple of seconds when outdoors.

In tornadoes, concrete material should have a 1/4 chance of not being destroyed when a tornado is sucking it up, brick should have 1/6, and shelters should have a 9/10 chance of not being destroyed when a tornado is right over it.

Another thing i forgot. Weather reports. A new tab in the codex, and basically states the weather report for the next day, and a report for the next couple of days. That has a 1/3 chance of being correct.

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