Is solitary confinement too effective?

[Stroomschok]

I love the addition of the legendary criminals and snitches. It's too bad though you can very easily negate their negative consequences by just locking them in solitary indefinitely.

I think this is a good example of why the solitary confinement and the suppression mechanic needs some rebalancing since it allows you to completely and indefinitely negate troublesome prisoners, with no consequence.

A good start would be the making it possible for prisoners to actually die of starvation, suppressed or not. And have guards or cooks distribute minimized food potions to prisoners in solitary or lockdown from the canteen during lunch times (maybe give them something like the laundry basket to make it a bit more efficient).

Neither should toilet-related needs be so easily put on permanent hold by suppression.

Another thing could be adding risks of prisoners getting negative physical or mental health traits if put into solitary confinement for too long (traits that could lead to a death by illness or suicide if not prevented by doctors or psychiatrists, other traits turning the inmate into a much bigger security liability like gaining a Stoic reputation).

And finally: while throwing inmates into solitary should suppress the individual troublemakers, having a big portion of your prisoner population semi-permanently locked away in solitary should really affect the general threat level of your prison.

[RichieGrape]

A good start would be the making it possible for prisoners to actually die of starvation, suppressed or not.

built a test prison yesterday...accepted the first 8 prisoners than turned intake off....sent all 8 to permanent solitary (locked doors shut once they where inside....after about 2days i noticed 2 of my prisoners where at 1/2 health and ended up dying later that day...i believe they starved to death in solitary..

[Stroomschok]

Yet I've had a legendary criminal sitting in solitary for almost a full week and he's fine (though I'm not manually locking the doors, but used the 'punish' option).

[xPyr0x]

You gotta lower the time on your solitary penalty's now that they added starvation. ~300 hours = guaranteed death. anything over 150, if hes not already well fed, will probably result in death. I just set everything to 12 hours for violent offence, and 6-12 lockdown time for everything else. Otherwise you'll constantly fill your solitary block and clog it up, then dudes just stand there and die... So if yours are all 24-48 hours, and some dude starts a fight, trys to escape, hits an inmate, hits a guard, hes instantly in solitary long enough to die, unless you had them all set to 12 or lower... (the legends and max dudes do this often)

[RichieGrape]

Yet I've had a legendary criminal sitting in solitary for almost a full week and he's fine (though I'm not manually locking the doors, but used the 'punish' option).

yea i thought about this after i posted...they might have starved due to their solitary stint being over even though they are still locked in

yea i only locked them in cause i was screwing around with pressure plates...accepted the first batch so the doors would all close than just locked em away...stuck 2 armed gaurds on them..where they stayed untill they starved to death

my biggest complaint about solitary is prisoners actions while in solitary...a prisoner gets sent to iso and accepts it and behaves..cmon...i've been in jail and there is always that a.hole that gets sent to solitary and than starts banging his head on the walls..or kicking the door trying to break it down...Alfred said it best

Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

[Jinxed]

Prisoners are able to starve in current vesrion.
If "Food" need is at maximum level then prisoner will gain "Starving" need.
When "Starving" will reach the meximum level, prisoner will start loosing health.

Punishments are already affecting the danger level, but punishing prisoners without reason (aka manually) will not affect the population.

[Stroomschok]

It says this in the patchnotes: 0004559: [Gameplay] Prisoners don't starve to death

I guess it was already there, but not working (and my legendary prisoner did only about 150 hours or so). It's still not much of a deterrent to use your solitary as a semi-permanent oubliette though. Especially not with the negligible penalty when an inmate actually starves to death.

And I'd still like to have at least the option of feeding inmates in lockdown and solitary :/

[Stroomschok]

Prisoners are able to starve in current vesrion.
If "Food" need is at maximum level then prisoner will gain "Starving" need.
When "Starving" will reach the meximum level, prisoner will start loosing health.

Punishments are already affecting the danger level, but punishing prisoners without reason (aka manually) will not affect the population.

You mean punishment affecting the danger level by lowering it, right? While I think that is a good mechanic, it feels unrealistic and unbalanced that sending tons of prisoners 'unjustly' to solitary manually and having long solitary punishments on even the most minor infractions, does not rise the overall danger level eventually.

[RichieGrape]

Prisoners are able to starve in current vesrion.
If "Food" need is at maximum level then prisoner will gain "Starving" need.
When "Starving" will reach the meximum level, prisoner will start loosing health.

Punishments are already affecting the danger level, but punishing prisoners without reason (aka manually) will not affect the population.

You mean punishment affecting the danger level by lowering it, right? While I think that is a good mechanic, it feels unrealistic and unbalanced that sending tons of prisoners 'unjustly' to solitary manually and having long solitary punishments on even the most minor infractions, does not rise the overall danger level eventually.

while i agree that overall throughout your prison danger levels should go down based on punishments being handed down...solitary is ruff and prisoners should have a breaking point...the point where they go crazy and become uncontrollable..i think this should be the danger of solitary

[Jinxed]

As I said before, manual punishment won't affect the risk.
Only those punishments which are issues automatically will affect it.

[Jacq]

Another thing could be adding risks of prisoners getting negative physical or mental health traits if put into solitary confinement for too long (traits that could lead to a death by illness or suicide if not prevented by doctors or psychiatrists, other traits turning the inmate into a much bigger security liability like gaining a Stoic reputation).

I like the idea in general of prisoners beeing able to develop traits based on actions around your prison. Getting beat up constantly has consequences you know, like maybe not beeing able to work so good anymore.

I see a potential idea in beeing able to put a max on solitary time, so that the one prisoner who gets punished for both attacking, murder, escape attempt etc. either have to serve several blocks of solitary or just get the max time rather than something that would put him in there long enough to die of starvation.

[xPyr0x]

If you lowered your times to a reasonable number, the guys won't die in solitary, unless they repeatedly get put in there, and if its a CI, just activate him once, deactivate, and you can get him out for free anytime.

You should expect maxers and legends to get attacked inmate, serious injury, attacked staff, drugs/weapons/destruction/escape attempt potentially all at once. If that total number is over 150 hours, he might die, if its 200-300, he certainly will. So lower your penaltys down to no more than 12 hours each until they fix it so inmates won't starve in solitary. Unless thats what your trying to do.