No benefits for Minimum Security ?

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Pirate
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No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Pirate » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:47 pm

There seems to be no benefits of allowing MinSec prisoners into your prison.
You get much less money for them but they generate the same costs as Normal and are only marginally less troublesome.
They should really be much calmer than the rest of prison population. Maybe take less drugs (when it actually matters) ? Be less keen to escape ? Have a smaller need for contraband ? Do their work duties better/faster ?
Otherwise there really isn't much reason to get them.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Jinxed » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:36 am

Min-sec prisoners are much less likely to have troublesome reputations, making it easier to manage the prison at early stages.
However, min-sec prisoners are also more likely to be snitches or ex-cops, which makes them a perfect kindling material in case if you are bored and willing to amuse yourself with a riot.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Pirate » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:50 am

Jinxed wrote:Min-sec prisoners are much less likely to have troublesome reputations, making it easier to manage the prison at early stages.
However, min-sec prisoners are also more likely to be snitches or ex-cops, which makes them a perfect kindling material in case if you are bored and willing to amuse yourself with a riot.

It's cool and all but they really need something more than that. I think right now, they're just too keen on escaping. People who get put in MinSec prisons don't really want to escape because it's not worth to do it. In PA my MinSec wing had all my escapes. It defeats the purpose of making a MinSec wing because you need to build it exactly the same as any other (same costs). The fact that they are less likely to cause trouble isn't enough considering how little you get paid for them.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Jinxed » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:56 am

It sounds like you are just giving an opportunity for your inmates to escape by not isolating their habitat with walls.
Any prisoner, no matter which security level, will seize the opportunity to escape if provided by bad architecture.

Actually, min-sec guys are perfect workforce of the prison.
Even though they are providing minimal goverment funding, they are also less prone to start trouble on a workplace thus able to provide more work-hours if compared to other inmates.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby blipadouzi » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:04 am

The advantage I see for min-sec is work. I set all of my prisoner jobs to min sec only, except for laundry, each wing has it's own. So the Min sec prisoners are pretty much my money makers from the workshop.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Pirate » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:32 am

Jinxed wrote:It sounds like you are just giving an opportunity for your inmates to escape by not isolating their habitat with walls.
Any prisoner, no matter which security level, will seize the opportunity to escape if provided by bad architecture.

Actually, min-sec guys are perfect workforce of the prison.
Even though they are providing minimal goverment funding, they are also less prone to start trouble on a workplace thus able to provide more work-hours if compared to other inmates.


My MinSec wing is exactly the same as the others. They just happened to try and escape more which doesn't make much sense.
'Minimum Security' should mean 'less likely to escape' not 'causes less trouble'. These are people with short sentences who are unlikely to risk an escape. If you're in for 3 years, you're not gonna try to escape, because you'd get another 10 if you did and got caught.
Making a MinSec wing (or an entire prison) is not really viable right now. They're not really better for work than any other inmates. My other prison has all Normal and they're working fine without ANY trouble at all. I bet that I could replace them all with Max and nothing would change. Why would I get MinSec when they take same space and require basically the same security but give less money ?
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby blipadouzi » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:42 am

Pirate wrote:
Jinxed wrote:It sounds like you are just giving an opportunity for your inmates to escape by not isolating their habitat with walls.
Any prisoner, no matter which security level, will seize the opportunity to escape if provided by bad architecture.

Actually, min-sec guys are perfect workforce of the prison.
Even though they are providing minimal goverment funding, they are also less prone to start trouble on a workplace thus able to provide more work-hours if compared to other inmates.


My MinSec wing is exactly the same as the others. They just happened to try and escape more which doesn't make much sense.
'Minimum Security' should mean 'less likely to escape' not 'causes less trouble'. These are people with short sentences who are unlikely to risk an escape. If you're in for 3 years, you're not gonna try to escape, because you'd get another 10 if you did and got caught.
Making a MinSec wing (or an entire prison) is not really viable right now. They're not really better for work than any other inmates. My other prison has all Normal and they're working fine without ANY trouble at all. I bet that I could replace them all with Max and nothing would change. Why would I get MinSec when they take same space and require basically the same security but give less money ?



Because...

Code: Select all

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Legendary
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    0
    ChanceHigh      2
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Strong
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    5
    ChanceHigh      15
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Tough
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    5
    ChanceHigh      15
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Quick
    ChanceLow       3
    ChanceMedium    2
    ChanceHigh      2
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Volatile
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    2
    ChanceHigh      15
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Stoical
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    10
    ChanceHigh      20
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Fearless
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    5
    ChanceHigh      15
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Deadly
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    1
    ChanceHigh      3
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Snitch
    ChanceLow       3
    ChanceMedium    2
    ChanceHigh      1
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            ExLaw
    ChanceLow       3
    ChanceMedium    2
    ChanceHigh      1
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            CopKiller
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    0
    ChanceHigh      10
END

BEGIN Reputation
    Name            Instigator
    ChanceLow       0
    ChanceMedium    1
    ChanceHigh      2
END


Minimum Security prisoners have 0% chance of having the Reputation of Legendary, Strong, Tough, Volatile, Stoical, Fearless, Deadly, Cop Killer & Instigator.
3% Chance of getting Quick, Snitch & Ex Law Enforcement.
zbyrne
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby zbyrne » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:04 pm

I was actually thinking on the Min. Sec issue. Yes they make better workers and all, but (and I might be wrong here) but don't most institutions have an overall security rating, ie. This is a Minimum security Prison. This is a max security prison etc. If IV went that direction, then you only be able to have certain types of prisoners, and your entire approach would vary depending on the cat of prisoners you could have. But having a Min. only sounds boring, yes, but imagine that min only were all rich white ppl with dodgy tax records and so on (so not very violent. altho possibly on drugs). So the challenge would be you can't ignore their needs, because powerful friends, and good lawyers. So punishment options would be strictly limited. You could even have limited security features, like no jail doors. no perimeter walls, only some fencing, if even. I dunno about america, but in ireland and the UK, we have "open" prisons. They're basically country retreats, barely any walls, lots of leisure activities, and it's a pretty comfy life(I'm exaggerating here). but if you manged one of them, then failure to meet needs would be a failure condition in itself, and it could be pretty easy to escape from (seriously in the past ppl have just wandered out the front door of these places), so you'd have to convince them to stay. If done properly it could be fairly challenging to play. Obviously new features would have to be added, but it might make min security more interesting.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Inge Jones » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:08 pm

Pirate wrote:
Jinxed wrote:My MinSec wing is exactly the same as the others. They just happened to try and escape more which doesn't make much sense.


yep, so do mine. They always build far more tunnels even though they all have the same access to tools
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby ble210 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:57 pm

I agree- min sec should be less likely to attempt to escape.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby bae85 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:02 pm

ble210 wrote:I agree- min sec should be less likely to attempt to escape.


To put it into context, in the UK what would be classed as the lowest risk prisoners are placed in Category D Prisons which are open prisons. They are given day release and are allowed to work in the community for example.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby TK2k1 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:17 am

Oh hey, so I'm not the only one who's noticed that even in the exact same conditions, min-sec are the only guys who seem to attempt escape. Constant tunnel attempts from them, but nothing from the other guys, which is a little baffling.

I've got one A25 prison with max-sec (and prot and supermax) only which has gone 101 days with 2 escapes...and those were because within the first 2 days I Northernlioned a fence. Oops.

I have had 2 guys kill guards and attempt to leave with their keys, but that didn't work out well for either of them. 200 prisoners, and I've not found a single tunnel in this place. I stopped checking toilets about 50 days ago because, seriously, that got old when every single dog flag was a false alarm. So many dismantled toilets. I still check them with dogs to see if they put down multiple flags, but I'm not dismantling toilets for this prison anymore, forget that.

I do check occasionally with 100% coverage veteran informants. I just look at that while checking new prisoners for important reps like Volatile or Ex-cop. Nothing, they don't even try.

But min-sec guys are crazy diggers. I wonder if it's intended for them to be so much more tunnel-prone than the others (or for the others to be so much less, perhaps).
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Jinxed » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:44 am

Only prisoners with hidden "Clever" trait are capable of digging the tunnels.
Min-sec are most likely to have this trait.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Inge Jones » Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:37 am

Jinxed wrote:Only prisoners with hidden "Clever" trait are capable of digging the tunnels.
Min-sec are most likely to have this trait.


What is the rationale for Min-sec most likely to be clever? Isn't it usually the Mr Bigs of the serious crime gangs who are the brains? I thought the petty criminals are usually just there for not managing their lives right, cos they're not all that capable. Or because they are celebs or politicians, but then they spend their time in prison planning to write their memoirs and get money from it. not digging tunnels.
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Re: No benefits for Minimum Security ?

Postby Jinxed » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:21 pm

The rationale for min-sec most likely to be clever is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru12YzfJ_PA


Mr Bigs is not murdering the people around. He is just pushing the buttons.
Max-sec are the buttons, they are the guys who actually do the killing and extorting.

Min-sec, by definition, is very hard to achieve for prisoner without a few friends, good lawyer and a few bucks invested in right pocket.

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