New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

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keanzu
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby keanzu » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:46 am

I was going to make the same suggestion. My prisoners die, there's a small monetary penalty, a red "Death" notice flashes up and ... that's it.

How did he die? I need an autopsy. What were the circumstances of his death? I need an investigation. Detectives come in, prison lockdown, they gather evidence at the scene. Criminal negligence investigation launched, guards prosecuted and potentially *imprisoned*. Grieving relatives sue. Protesters picket the prison, some staff quit in fear/shame, warden resigns.

A man placed into my care by the state has died - there should be serious repercussions. I felt pain and anguish when I executed Edward Romsey. I should feel the same pain when other prisoners die. I haven't seen the CEO since the intro. Does he not care that a prisoner died?


Also, why do my CIs and ex-LEOs die so readily? How is that the attackers are so effective and so committed that their attacks result in 100% lethality? How about some injuries and long term on-going medical bills plus bed taken up?


Prison deaths need to invoke more than "oh, damn my valuation will drop" from me, and that's all they currently get.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby Helmic » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:21 pm

keanzu wrote:I was going to make the same suggestion. My prisoners die, there's a small monetary penalty, a red "Death" notice flashes up and ... that's it.

How did he die? I need an autopsy. What were the circumstances of his death? I need an investigation. Detectives come in, prison lockdown, they gather evidence at the scene. Criminal negligence investigation launched, guards prosecuted and potentially *imprisoned*. Grieving relatives sue. Protesters picket the prison, some staff quit in fear/shame, warden resigns.

A man placed into my care by the state has died - there should be serious repercussions. I felt pain and anguish when I executed Edward Romsey. I should feel the same pain when other prisoners die. I haven't seen the CEO since the intro. Does he not care that a prisoner died?


Also, why do my CIs and ex-LEOs die so readily? How is that the attackers are so effective and so committed that their attacks result in 100% lethality? How about some injuries and long term on-going medical bills plus bed taken up?


Prison deaths need to invoke more than "oh, damn my valuation will drop" from me, and that's all they currently get.


I'm not sure it'd be good to go that far with penalizing death. People dying and your fortress/space station/village/prison on fire is where a good bit of the entertainment in a dorflike comes from, overly penalizing the chaos encourages a too conservative approach.

I do like the idea of autopsies though, because the game doesn't give you much feedback at all about what's happening in the prison. Someone died? OK, I do want to know things like who did it (and I'd love to be able to investigate it manually), but I also want more feedback as to why these things happen. Did someone get shanked over an argument? Was it a hit? Was the guy a child molester? That stuff adds to the story of the prison, which is what makes it memorable.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby RJenkos » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:35 pm

It would be funny to see the doctors with the working animation just waving a scalpel over the dead body lol.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby keanzu » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:25 pm

RJenkos wrote:It would be funny to see the doctors with the working animation just waving a scalpel over the dead body lol.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

The purpose of the autopsy is to give me information which will aid me in keeping my prisoners alive. Not to create a macabre spectacle. :?

But sure, why not train up my doctors to handle autopsies on site. I was assuming my prison doctors would be general practitioners without the specialist knowledge and equipment to perform an autopsy and they would be done offsite.

Maybe: 10K to train up doctor to perform autopsy. 2K to get an autopsy performed offsite.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby Helmic » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:55 pm

keanzu wrote:
RJenkos wrote:It would be funny to see the doctors with the working animation just waving a scalpel over the dead body lol.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

The purpose of the autopsy is to give me information which will aid me in keeping my prisoners alive. Not to create a macabre spectacle. :?

But sure, why not train up my doctors to handle autopsies on site. I was assuming my prison doctors would be general practitioners without the specialist knowledge and equipment to perform an autopsy and they would be done offsite.

Maybe: 10K to train up doctor to perform autopsy. 2K to get an autopsy performed offsite.


No reason to complicate it. A simple Bureaucracy upgrade and a class would fit within the game's existing system, there's no need to introduce a new mechanic for the player to learn for just this one thing. Have some off-site doctor show up as a teacher in the morgue where he teaches your doctors over a period of time, after which they can perform autopsies.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby CumpyLustard » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:49 am

Helmic wrote:No reason to complicate it. A simple Bureaucracy upgrade and a class would fit within the game's existing system, there's no need to introduce a new mechanic for the player to learn for just this one thing. Have some off-site doctor show up as a teacher in the morgue where he teaches your doctors over a period of time, after which they can perform autopsies.


I think this would be a good way to implement it, yeah.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby lunaticneko » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:35 am

CumpyLustard wrote:
Helmic wrote:No reason to complicate it. A simple Bureaucracy upgrade and a class would fit within the game's existing system, there's no need to introduce a new mechanic for the player to learn for just this one thing. Have some off-site doctor show up as a teacher in the morgue where he teaches your doctors over a period of time, after which they can perform autopsies.


I think this would be a good way to implement it, yeah.


Agreed on this one. However, doctor training is quite long and costly in general (especially when compared to "how to use a table saw" and "how to use a tazer"), and I think the game should reflect this fact.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby Helmic » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:00 am

lunaticneko wrote:
CumpyLustard wrote:
Helmic wrote:No reason to complicate it. A simple Bureaucracy upgrade and a class would fit within the game's existing system, there's no need to introduce a new mechanic for the player to learn for just this one thing. Have some off-site doctor show up as a teacher in the morgue where he teaches your doctors over a period of time, after which they can perform autopsies.


I think this would be a good way to implement it, yeah.


Agreed on this one. However, doctor training is quite long and costly in general (especially when compared to "how to use a table saw" and "how to use a tazer"), and I think the game should reflect this fact.


Not really. An in-game day is analogous to years served for people's prison sentences. They learn how to become master carpenters over the course of a week. Who cares if people who are already doctors learn how to perform autopsies after a couple in-game days? Fun and game balance is king, realism be damned.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby nikki katz » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:29 am

This is a great idea, surely can't be that hard to implement either?
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby lunaticneko » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:09 am

Helmic wrote:Not really. An in-game day is analogous to years served for people's prison sentences. They learn how to become master carpenters over the course of a week. Who cares if people who are already doctors learn how to perform autopsies after a couple in-game days? Fun and game balance is king, realism be damned.

You don't realize that I'm not demanding realism, right?
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby Allied » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:44 am

keanzu wrote:I was going to make the same suggestion. My prisoners die, there's a small monetary penalty, a red "Death" notice flashes up and ... that's it.

How did he die? I need an autopsy. What were the circumstances of his death? I need an investigation. Detectives come in, prison lockdown, they gather evidence at the scene. Criminal negligence investigation launched, guards prosecuted and potentially *imprisoned*. Grieving relatives sue. Protesters picket the prison, some staff quit in fear/shame, warden resigns.

A man placed into my care by the state has died - there should be serious repercussions. I felt pain and anguish when I executed Edward Romsey. I should feel the same pain when other prisoners die. I haven't seen the CEO since the intro. Does he not care that a prisoner died?


Also, why do my CIs and ex-LEOs die so readily? How is that the attackers are so effective and so committed that their attacks result in 100% lethality? How about some injuries and long term on-going medical bills plus bed taken up?


Prison deaths need to invoke more than "oh, damn my valuation will drop" from me, and that's all they currently get.


While I think you might be going a little too far, elements of this are certainly needed. The first time I had a dead I thought "oh, that's it?". Repercussions were terribly light. But the attacks in my prison are no longer 100%, at least in Medsec. I have armed guards patrolling the canteen and yard, where attacks are almost guaranteed to happen. The canteen is also planned to allow considerable throughput without bottleneck, so the two to four attackers usually get put down with tazers before they can kill the victim. I then move the victim off to my separate facility for protective custody. I try to catch snitches and ex-LEOs on the truck on the way in and send them directly to this facility to avoid any attempt on their life.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby Alpatron » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:07 pm

MAdMaN wrote:
dooferorg wrote:Also too, how about our Guards and staff get names. 'Bob' the Workman was simply installing some electrical cable when he was attacked in the yard. Poor Bob.

Chris has said only prisoners will have names.


If so we need to mod that in. :-)
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby Helmic » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:09 am

lunaticneko wrote:
Helmic wrote:Not really. An in-game day is analogous to years served for people's prison sentences. They learn how to become master carpenters over the course of a week. Who cares if people who are already doctors learn how to perform autopsies after a couple in-game days? Fun and game balance is king, realism be damned.

You don't realize that I'm not demanding realism, right?


Mmm, but you implied that it should be more expensive in time and resources than tazer training for guards, which mechanically is WAY more useful than autopsies will ever be.
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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby czar mohab » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:32 am

I think this entire thing can be done simply and effectively by adding a new staff member: Medical Examiner (or Coroner. Or Cadaver-Look-at-Guy. Or whatever).

Hangs out in the morgue. The thought being that bodies are brought there, then looked over, then free to go to a waiting hearse. For simplicity, bodies don't actually have to go there, just assume to have been looked over (like how psychologists know the needs of every prisoner the instant you hire one without seeing them one-on-one first).

Handling is similar to needs (can be seen when hovering over corpse with mouse, or ideally on rap sheet postmortem), reads as "Cause of Death:" and the cause (clubbed by guard, dog bite, shanked by prisoner, etc.). Without the ME, all that is seen is "?????".

For even more simplicity, replace the new staff with just a plain ol' doctor with the same deal, no doctor, no report. Bonus here is not much needs to be added and you don't have extra people hanging around in your morgue looking at stiffs.

Bonus to the ME, and something that could be added to the doctors as they are now is the ability to drag bodies to the slabs. But I digress as that is a topic for a separate thread.

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Re: New Idea: Autopsy Reports?

Postby spectacularnono18 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:44 pm

I definetly agree. I have a high sec big prison and I once found a random dead prisoner in the hallway. I didnt get an alert or anything and I wanted to know who killed him.

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