[Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option.

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SneakySherpa
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[Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option.

Postby SneakySherpa » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:02 am

It is with hope that people see this and consider how much fun they could have with their own "Gulag, Work/Labour Prisoner Release"camp could be!

Thank you.

Just to begin with. I love Prison Architect. The game is by far one of the best games I have played in years. I don't make forum posts, this is my first one. I searched and couldn't find what I searched for this subject, so I made it.

One thing that I felt about it though that I just wish to say is that since Alpha 17.... When you started to enact.... "Liberal Policies"..... (Shudders)
You see my prison, may or may not have been similar to some peoples prisons, no longer worked correctly.

There were very few cells. Bus loads of people were constantly dropped off. ( I may have edited the game file to drop off 2000 of them a day)
A massive workshop with sheet metal and lumber to be cut into its correct product.
The workforce? Prisoners..... You see though they were untrained and technically forced to work without care. Armed guards constantly on stand by, and everyone did everything without question. This Alpha changed everything by making it so they needed to know "How not to hurt themselves". Please note my prison runs on the Darwin concept; Survival of the fittest. I don't care if they hurt themselves... They have to pay some price for their crimes. This is just one of them. My prison isn't there to pat them on the head and tell them they are loved. It is there to scare and destroy their minds, if they survive, they will speak horrors of what is done to people never to re-offend. I mean prisoners rebelled and they were shot. Body upon body piled around, blood drenching the walls. It was more of a meat shop. Meat to feed the machines. Their bodies brought out to trucks to be witnessed by the next prisoners. Warning of the things to come. So with that I have a few "Suggestions" which may be not liked by some of the weaker stomached people* (Liberals*).

1) [i]Forced Labour- No workshop class, just pushed into the workshop to begin working. Enacted through policy, no longer must they be taught the basics. The price? They hurt themselves and work slower, but can eventually if they don't kill themselves, gain enough skill to replace the need for the workshop safety course. (Because I am sure you would prefer the chance of killing yourself working the machine than me shooting you, just saying, if you were in my prison) I am also sure that you would like to eat as well... Better get started there is a lot of cabbage to make.

2) Prisoner complaining- Enact a beat down to suppress protest before they starts, either through auto script toggle option or target based order.Also can be used to make that slower worker increase their speed. Careful you are next to saws... Maybe a good ol' production quota could be enacted and punishment is a good beating... Nothing works better than physical encouragement.

3) Move It Along!- Always walking so slow... By the time they get to where they need to be its almost over... And to think... They passed up their daily cabbage hour... Poor prisoners. Their next chance to eat is again at 12pm tomorrow. How about some good ol' shouting and random club swings to motivate them to.. MOVE IT ALONG!!! (Nothing to hurt, or maybe just a little. 'Tag' or "Love Tap" to get them out of that daze)

4) Special Treatment- Solitary is nice.. Sometimes though beat downs and isolation are not enough to motivate and have a successful production day. Water boarding anyone?

5) Making Some Money- How about some ways to make some extra money? I heard the pharmaceutical companies are always looking for people to test their drugs. It just so happens that we have some very eager and energetic prisoners who would love to help out. Done in the infirmary, since those lecherous doctors are usually idle most of the time anyways; they will administer vaccines and drugs to the prisoners in an attempt to further science. A "Mandatory Enroll" plan for each prisoner; it would be used to lower their time needed to be served and give money to the prison for each one enrolled per day... If they survive. Watch out for an outbreak too, best keep these prisoners separated from the general population. We don't want anything getting out....

These are just some of my suggestions. Some might worry about how intense these policies and choices are. Well some of us would not run a prison the same way as you. With Psychologists , Work Safety Programs, and being able to address the Needs of the Prisoner it is now time to make it more Right...

I am also aware that a lot of the things spoken of could be exceptional hard to code or would take an incredible amount of time. These are merely suggestions.

Because lets just be serious for a second. The Liberal, care-bear, prison... Its not for everyone...

Thanks again for reading.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby blacksythe » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:57 am

Interesting idea's but none of the will ever be added to prison architect, By the looks of it Chris is going for a more modern western style prison. I imagine the game you want is called Tropico. Or at least see if enough mod support is added for Gulag to add this in.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby 5hifty » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:25 pm

I would defiantly like to see some more 'harsh' options for the player to take. Currently. It is most optimum to treat the prisoners well enough that they don't riot and maybe reform them. I would like to see some other routes for the player to take. We can see a beginning to that in I could have armed guards walk the halls for the suppression so I don't have to give my prisoners TV's, but some further expansion on this would be awesome.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby Alpatron » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:09 pm

Well the base is about running a normal guideline prison. That won't happen.

Sounds more like a mod.

To your ideas, nice sadistic ideas. Ofcourse you would need first to research "Corupt inspector" and use the special warden (that one with experience).
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby SneakySherpa » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:49 pm

blacksythe wrote:Interesting idea's but none of the will ever be added to prison architect, By the looks of it Chris is going for a more modern western style prison. I imagine the game you want is called Tropico. Or at least see if enough mod support is added for Gulag to add this in.


I love all the Tropicos, except for the last one; didn't have the same feel. Mods could be done but it would be nice if the invested as much time into the right as they do in the left.
So much potential for this game, that's why I love it. I just hope they don't limit or impose so many restrictions that is leads down a very fine path of what to do to get the "Highest Score".
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby Myrten » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:40 pm

Alpha 18 broke my gameplay too :/ I support this idea. Singapore style prison with corporal punishments would be nice too.

I'd love to be able to set more extreme penalties for misconduct like canning for escape attempt and execution for attacking staff member

5hifty wrote:I would defiantly like to see some more 'harsh' options for the player to take. Currently. It is most optimum to treat the prisoners well enough that they don't riot and maybe reform them. I would like to see some other routes for the player to take. We can see a beginning to that in I could have armed guards walk the halls for the suppression so I don't have to give my prisoners TV's, but some further expansion on this would be awesome.


This is wrong, there is a way of building repressive prison which is much more efficient then any liberal prison caring for prisoner's needs unless you are very successful with a workshop.

1)Only use max sec prisoners
2)Build a yard next to a holding cell and set the regime to yard all the time. No sleeping no eating etc...
3)Surround a yard with a fence
4)Put armed guards on patrol around a fence and activate freefire. Putting some dogs inside helps too.

It should look like this:
Image

I don't think there is a limit to a number of prisoners this system can support as they are all suppressed very well. I didn't have a single riot since implementing this system. Bad side of this is that it's pretty boring as prisoners don't do anything.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby xander » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:56 pm

A prison like that argues in favor of IV implementing death due to starvation, disease (from poor hygiene), and other needs not being met. Currently, a highly suppressive regime works because suppressed prisoners simply don't need any needs met. Put them in a large holding cell or yard with lots of armed guards and you are done. However, suppressed prisoners move more slowly, which makes me that that it would be difficult to get them moved from room to room fast enough to satisfy basic needs like hygiene and food. If there were a penalty beyond riot risk (i.e. prisoners starve to death leading to a game over scenario), such a prison would likely not work.

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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby Myrten » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:41 pm

xander wrote:A prison like that argues in favor of IV implementing death due to starvation, disease (from poor hygiene), and other needs not being met. Currently, a highly suppressive regime works because suppressed prisoners simply don't need any needs met. Put them in a large holding cell or yard with lots of armed guards and you are done. However, suppressed prisoners move more slowly, which makes me that that it would be difficult to get them moved from room to room fast enough to satisfy basic needs like hygiene and food. If there were a penalty beyond riot risk (i.e. prisoners starve to death leading to a game over scenario), such a prison would likely not work.

xander

Sure this prison concept is an abuse of death due to starvation not being implemented, however implementing it right now would make satisfying prisoners' needs the only way to play the game which isn't a good idea IMHO. I'd like to have some choice in what type of prison I want to build.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby SneakySherpa » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:03 pm

I just feel in the end that only one path will be right. You have a "Mild Choice" for an authoritative , solitary, lock down. Nothing really note worthy.
Where as the Liberal end
Psych Doctors, Methadone Treatment, Workshop Safety Courses, Visitation.
Even worst, medical care for prisoners, education classes, yard time, SHOWERS! Clean Clothes.....FOOD?!

Maybe an option to feed prisoners "Less than safe food" Saves money but has a chance to make prisoners sick/dead.
Use only cold water no hot for showers.
Clean clothes ? They serve their time in the one uniform...
Yard time? You mean solitary outside?
Visitation..... One payphone in the whole prison... Sad that last time a rioter broke it. I might get around to fixing it.

Too many options for the left nothing really for the right...

Hopefully this makes it to top of forum to get their attention. Is there anyway to get this to them directly? So they know that authoritative players are a part of their player base and not just the "Care-Bear Hug Session Liberal Cry Squad"
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby SneakySherpa » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:15 pm

Myrten wrote:Alpha 18 broke my gameplay too :/ I support this idea. Singapore style prison with corporal punishments would be nice too.

I'd love to be able to set more extreme penalties for misconduct like canning for escape attempt and execution for attacking staff member

5hifty wrote:I would defiantly like to see some more 'harsh' options for the player to take. Currently. It is most optimum to treat the prisoners well enough that they don't riot and maybe reform them. I would like to see some other routes for the player to take. We can see a beginning to that in I could have armed guards walk the halls for the suppression so I don't have to give my prisoners TV's, but some further expansion on this would be awesome.


This is wrong, there is a way of building repressive prison which is much more efficient then any liberal prison caring for prisoner's needs unless you are very successful with a workshop.

1)Only use max sec prisoners
2)Build a yard next to a holding cell and set the regime to yard all the time. No sleeping no eating etc...
3)Surround a yard with a fence
4)Put armed guards on patrol around a fence and activate freefire. Putting some dogs inside helps too.

It should look like this:
Image

I don't think there is a limit to a number of prisoners this system can support as they are all suppressed very well. I didn't have a single riot since implementing this system. Bad side of this is that it's pretty boring as prisoners don't do anything.



I see you have your live stock grazing outside... I prefer the "Never see the light of day Veal..." Kept in a small.... small..... Small...... 1X1 box... haha.

I have had my prison set too about 500+ or so before performance and graphic glitches occurred. They are doing an excellent job though. The monthly update is great where as some developers you are lucky if they fix a bug every month.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby xander » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:54 pm

Myrten wrote:Sure this prison concept is an abuse of death due to starvation not being implemented, however implementing it right now would make satisfying prisoners' needs the only way to play the game which isn't a good idea IMHO. I'd like to have some choice in what type of prison I want to build.

I agree that there should be options in how the game is played, but do you really think that the prison shown above represents the kind of play that IV should be encouraging? That prison doesn't represent an authoritarian prison, but rather exploits a flaw in the game logic to achieve a stable equilibrium without much (if any) player input.

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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby Myrten » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:42 am

xander wrote:
Myrten wrote:Sure this prison concept is an abuse of death due to starvation not being implemented, however implementing it right now would make satisfying prisoners' needs the only way to play the game which isn't a good idea IMHO. I'd like to have some choice in what type of prison I want to build.

I agree that there should be options in how the game is played, but do you really think that the prison shown above represents the kind of play that IV should be encouraging? That prison doesn't represent an authoritarian prison, but rather exploits a flaw in the game logic to achieve a stable equilibrium without much (if any) player input.

xander

Don't get me wrong, I only consider this kind of prison a temporary workaround and it needs to be fixed sooner or later, but I'd prefer IV to put legitimate authoritarian way of running a prison first so 'liberal' prison wouldn't be the only way to play the game.

SneakySherpa wrote:I see you have your live stock grazing outside... I prefer the "Never see the light of day Veal..." Kept in a small.... small..... Small...... 1X1 box... haha.

I have had my prison set too about 500+ or so before performance and graphic glitches occurred. They are doing an excellent job though. The monthly update is great where as some developers you are lucky if they fix a bug every month.

They are outside so I can use fence and put my armed guards around prisoners without a risk of them being killed in melee fight and prisoners getting shotguns. Suppression is also working through the fence.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby SneakySherpa » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:05 pm

Myrten wrote:
xander wrote:
Myrten wrote:Sure this prison concept is an abuse of death due to starvation not being implemented, however implementing it right now would make satisfying prisoners' needs the only way to play the game which isn't a good idea IMHO. I'd like to have some choice in what type of prison I want to build.

I agree that there should be options in how the game is played, but do you really think that the prison shown above represents the kind of play that IV should be encouraging? That prison doesn't represent an authoritarian prison, but rather exploits a flaw in the game logic to achieve a stable equilibrium without much (if any) player input.

xander

Don't get me wrong, I only consider this kind of prison a temporary workaround and it needs to be fixed sooner or later, but I'd prefer IV to put legitimate authoritarian way of running a prison first so 'liberal' prison wouldn't be the only way to play the game.

SneakySherpa wrote:I see you have your live stock grazing outside... I prefer the "Never see the light of day Veal..." Kept in a small.... small..... Small...... 1X1 box... haha.

I have had my prison set too about 500+ or so before performance and graphic glitches occurred. They are doing an excellent job though. The monthly update is great where as some developers you are lucky if they fix a bug every month.

They are outside so I can use fence and put my armed guards around prisoners without a risk of them being killed in melee fight and prisoners getting shotguns. Suppression is also working through the fence.


Don't get me wrong its an excellent setup to prevent unwanted casualties . I wish they hadn't taken out the dance routines from last Halloween, looks like the setup would have been perfect. When so many got together outside they would do Thriller.
Maybe a prison fight club PPV event? Something like a Death Match or Royal Rumble? I just feel bored, since at this point, its merely keep them alive for the money.

I found a mod which made the prison workshop safety class mandatory, the only problem is that they fail every time. Does anyone know of a mod or way to edit that would remove the need for it all together? Cheers.
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby KillerCam » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:46 am

SneakySherpa wrote:It is with hope that people see this and consider how much fun they could have with their own "Gulag, Work/Labour Prisoner Release"camp could be!

Thank you.

Just to begin with. I love Prison Architect. The game is by far one of the best games I have played in years. I don't make forum posts, this is my first one. I searched and couldn't find what I searched for this subject, so I made it.

One thing that I felt about it though that I just wish to say is that since Alpha 17.... When you started to enact.... "Liberal Policies"..... (Shudders)
You see my prison, may or may not have been similar to some peoples prisons, no longer worked correctly.

There were very few cells. Bus loads of people were constantly dropped off. ( I may have edited the game file to drop off 2000 of them a day)
A massive workshop with sheet metal and lumber to be cut into its correct product.
The workforce? Prisoners..... You see though they were untrained and technically forced to work without care. Armed guards constantly on stand by, and everyone did everything without question. This Alpha changed everything by making it so they needed to know "How not to hurt themselves". Please note my prison runs on the Darwin concept; Survival of the fittest. I don't care if they hurt themselves... They have to pay some price for their crimes. This is just one of them. My prison isn't there to pat them on the head and tell them they are loved. It is there to scare and destroy their minds, if they survive, they will speak horrors of what is done to people never to re-offend. I mean prisoners rebelled and they were shot. Body upon body piled around, blood drenching the walls. It was more of a meat shop. Meat to feed the machines. Their bodies brought out to trucks to be witnessed by the next prisoners. Warning of the things to come. So with that I have a few "Suggestions" which may be not liked by some of the weaker stomached people* (Liberals*).

1) [i]Forced Labour- No workshop class, just pushed into the workshop to begin working. Enacted through policy, no longer must they be taught the basics. The price? They hurt themselves and work slower, but can eventually if they don't kill themselves, gain enough skill to replace the need for the workshop safety course. (Because I am sure you would prefer the chance of killing yourself working the machine than me shooting you, just saying, if you were in my prison) I am also sure that you would like to eat as well... Better get started there is a lot of cabbage to make.

2) Prisoner complaining- Enact a beat down to suppress protest before they starts, either through auto script toggle option or target based order.Also can be used to make that slower worker increase their speed. Careful you are next to saws... Maybe a good ol' production quota could be enacted and punishment is a good beating... Nothing works better than physical encouragement.

3) Move It Along!- Always walking so slow... By the time they get to where they need to be its almost over... And to think... They passed up their daily cabbage hour... Poor prisoners. Their next chance to eat is again at 12pm tomorrow. How about some good ol' shouting and random club swings to motivate them to.. MOVE IT ALONG!!! (Nothing to hurt, or maybe just a little. 'Tag' or "Love Tap" to get them out of that daze)

4) Special Treatment- Solitary is nice.. Sometimes though beat downs and isolation are not enough to motivate and have a successful production day. Water boarding anyone?

5) Making Some Money- How about some ways to make some extra money? I heard the pharmaceutical companies are always looking for people to test their drugs. It just so happens that we have some very eager and energetic prisoners who would love to help out. Done in the infirmary, since those lecherous doctors are usually idle most of the time anyways; they will administer vaccines and drugs to the prisoners in an attempt to further science. A "Mandatory Enroll" plan for each prisoner; it would be used to lower their time needed to be served and give money to the prison for each one enrolled per day... If they survive. Watch out for an outbreak too, best keep these prisoners separated from the general population. We don't want anything getting out....

These are just some of my suggestions. Some might worry about how intense these policies and choices are. Well some of us would not run a prison the same way as you. With Psychologists , Work Safety Programs, and being able to address the Needs of the Prisoner it is now time to make it more Right...

I am also aware that a lot of the things spoken of could be exceptional hard to code or would take an incredible amount of time. These are merely suggestions.

Because lets just be serious for a second. The Liberal, care-bear, prison... Its not for everyone...

Thanks again for reading.


Finally someone smart +1
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Re: [Suggestion] Fascist Actions, Policies. Work Camp Option

Postby Person012345 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:59 am

The OP goes too far. However, I do think they should make oppressive prisons more viable and more desirable than they currently are.

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