[Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

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ThePirateKing
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[Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby ThePirateKing » Sun May 18, 2014 10:07 pm

In building my prison I found that after a certain point almost all of the drugs coming into my prison were coming in through intake. I was able to prevent prisoners from getting drugs through visitation by assigning dogs to the entrance of that room, but I didn't want to assign dog handlers to patrol the entrances to my prison just so they could sniff 20 prisoners each day at most (I often have visitation turned off).

There should be an option under prison policy to mark every newly arriving inmate to be searched automatically (and maybe have his cell searched too, just to make sure the previous occupant didn't leave any surprises). This is an easy-to-implement way to allow players to control the flow of contraband coming in from outside the prison.

It's a frustrating game mechanic to have undetectable items, like piano wire, batons and needles, coming in from outside. There are no other sources of weapons that can get past metal detectors in the game, other than the security room which is easy to restrict access to. That alone warrants searched on intake.
Last edited by ThePirateKing on Mon May 19, 2014 6:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
maddguyy
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby maddguyy » Mon May 19, 2014 2:08 am

ThePirateKing wrote:In building my prison I found that after a certain point almost all of the drugs coming into my prison were coming in through intake. I was able to prevent prisoners from getting drugs through visitation by assigning dogs to the entrance of that room, but I didn't want to assign dog handlers to patrol the entrances to my prison just so they could sniff 20 prisoners each day at most (I often have visitation turned off).

There should be an option under prison policy to mark every newly arriving inmate to be searched automatically (and maybe have his cell searched too, just to make sure the previous occupant didn't leave any surprises). This is an easy-to-implement way to allow players to control the flow of contraband coming in from outside the prison.


I think this is a bit finicky and will end up costing you more time in the long run. Even 'search cell/block' can and usually does summon an unassigned guard from unpractical points in the prison, and if you're doing this daily seems a bit tedious.

I don't really know why you're against sniffing 20 a day, thats really a lot, especially if its automatic from assigning a simple patrol at the entrance as you suggested. I have guards patrolling any choke point where I will have a metal detector also and it ends up paying off, especially outside a visitation room. Also, visitation helps the 'family' need heaps so I'm really surprised to hear you don't even have the option there :shock:
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby 5hifty » Mon May 19, 2014 3:02 am

I'm all for a search the prisoners when they arrive option.
ThePirateKing
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby ThePirateKing » Mon May 19, 2014 5:53 am

maddguyy wrote:
ThePirateKing wrote:In building my prison I found that after a certain point almost all of the drugs coming into my prison were coming in through intake. I was able to prevent prisoners from getting drugs through visitation by assigning dogs to the entrance of that room, but I didn't want to assign dog handlers to patrol the entrances to my prison just so they could sniff 20 prisoners each day at most (I often have visitation turned off).

There should be an option under prison policy to mark every newly arriving inmate to be searched automatically (and maybe have his cell searched too, just to make sure the previous occupant didn't leave any surprises). This is an easy-to-implement way to allow players to control the flow of contraband coming in from outside the prison.


I think this is a bit finicky and will end up costing you more time in the long run. Even 'search cell/block' can and usually does summon an unassigned guard from unpractical points in the prison, and if you're doing this daily seems a bit tedious.
My cell blocks have 28 cells each; each cell has a bed, toilet, and bookcase. That's three searchable items, 84 in the whole block, and my guards are able to search through the cell block just fine; 8 to 20 handcuffed prisoners shouldn't be a problem for them, especially when they already have to escort them to their cells. I understand that the way jobs are assigned to guards is often impractical, but that's something that definitely needs to be improved.

All that aside, what I'm proposing would be an optional checkbox under prison policy. If you don't want to run your prison that way, you don't have to.
maddguyy wrote:I don't really know why you're against sniffing 20 a day, thats really a lot, especially if its automatic from assigning a simple patrol at the entrance as you suggested. I have guards patrolling any choke point where I will have a metal detector also and it ends up paying off, especially outside a visitation room. Also, visitation helps the 'family' need heaps so I'm really surprised to hear you don't even have the option there :shock:
Keep in mind that prison intake doesn't always give you 20; it can be as low as 8. Or it can be none if I turn intake off, which I frequently do because the canteen system is so broken. So having a dog posted at each entrance full-time is a waste of resources, especially since you seem to need to hire two dogs to cover each post because they get tired so quick.

I should also mention the fact that there are certain items of contraband which can get past both dogs and metal detectors without raising an alarm. Some examples are piano wire and the baton, which aren't tagged as metal and as such won't set off the metal detector. There are also drugs that won't alert dogs, like the needle and booze. My prisoners never get injured and have no access to the security room, so they have no way of obtaining batons or needles inside the prison. That means the only source of piano wire, batons, and needles in my prison is the front gate, and these also happen to be the items that I have no absolutely no way of detecting other than a cell-block search or full-on shakedown.

It's a frustrating game mechanic. It just feels like the outside world is a source of contraband, including weapons, that you have no way of detecting, and if that's the case searching prisoners on intake is the way to go.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby konso » Mon May 19, 2014 6:16 pm

I support this suggestion. Sounds like a useful option in some cases.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby cfpsmatt » Mon May 19, 2014 11:01 pm

I think that sounds like a great idea. Can I add another idea to the mix and suggest we should add in searching visitors as an option as well, to prevent inmates getting handed contraband during visitations. I think that is a realistic security measure that takes place during visits, especially in higher security institutions. It adds an extra level of prevention on top of metal detectors and dogs as the prisoners leave visitation.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby ThePirateKing » Tue May 20, 2014 12:23 pm

cfpsmatt wrote:I think that sounds like a great idea. Can I add another idea to the mix and suggest we should add in searching visitors as an option as well, to prevent inmates getting handed contraband during visitations. I think that is a realistic security measure that takes place during visits, especially in higher security institutions. It adds an extra level of prevention on top of metal detectors and dogs as the prisoners leave visitation.
I wonder if you could just make it so visitors who set off dogs / metal detectors get searched and their contraband confiscated?

The thing is I feel there'd need to be some sort of consequence for searching visitors unnecessarily; the visitors wouldn't be happy about it and since they're not prisoners, they might sue the prison...

I say this because there's already a consequence for searching prisoners unnecessarily, in that they get angry and potentially break things.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby xander » Tue May 20, 2014 4:17 pm

ThePirateKing wrote:I wonder if you could just make it so visitors who set off dogs / metal detectors get searched and their contraband confiscated?

As has been noted every other time that the idea of searching visitors has been suggested, the game currently doesn't model visitor possession of contraband. Right now, visitors *never* carry any contraband. Instead, a prisoner who is in the visitation room (for any reason, including mopping the floors) has a chance of acquiring contraband---in essence, the contraband materializes out of thin air. Since prisoners don't actually have any contraband, searching them serves no purpose.

One assume that *if* IV plan on changing this model in the future, *then* searching visitors might become part of the game.

xander
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby ImaBrokeDude » Tue May 20, 2014 4:41 pm

I think that the idea of searching new prisoners is fine. However I think there should be a specific model. New prisoners should always be taken to a holding cell first then searched before being sent to their cell. The architect would invest in the metal detectors by the entrance and holding cells at least to help with finding it.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby cfpsmatt » Tue May 20, 2014 4:46 pm

I see, that makes sense, thanks Xander. If the mechanism of visitors bringing in contraband changes then it might become a point to raise.

I agree that there would be consequences for searching visitors who do not actually have contraband, I was just saying that I recently had a conversation with a friend who works at a prison, he said that during visitations where prisoners and visitors are able to make physical contact the visitors have to be searched. Otherwise they sit either side of the table and are not allowed to make physical contact. I think there could be an option to make a system like that in the game, whereby implementing it reduces the inflow of contraband but also reduced the benefits to prisoner happiness from a visit.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby ThePirateKing » Tue May 20, 2014 8:24 pm

xander wrote:
ThePirateKing wrote:I wonder if you could just make it so visitors who set off dogs / metal detectors get searched and their contraband confiscated?

As has been noted every other time that the idea of searching visitors has been suggested, the game currently doesn't model visitor possession of contraband. Right now, visitors *never* carry any contraband. Instead, a prisoner who is in the visitation room (for any reason, including mopping the floors) has a chance of acquiring contraband---in essence, the contraband materializes out of thin air. Since prisoners don't actually have any contraband, searching them serves no purpose.

One assume that *if* IV plan on changing this model in the future, *then* searching visitors might become part of the game.

xander

That's a good point actually; they might need to think of changing the way contraband works across the board to accommodate that particular suggestion. That would seem like a lot of work if it was only done to change the way visitation works.

So maybe an easier-to-implement idea would be to have prisoners searched automatically the moment they leave visitation. It would mean you would have a permanently high count of "prisoners searched unnecessarily recently" (meaning they'd always be somewhat angry), but as a trade-off you'd have nearly zero contraband coming in through visitation.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby ThePirateKing » Tue May 20, 2014 8:34 pm

cfpsmatt wrote:I see, that makes sense, thanks Xander. If the mechanism of visitors bringing in contraband changes then it might become a point to raise.

I agree that there would be consequences for searching visitors who do not actually have contraband, I was just saying that I recently had a conversation with a friend who works at a prison, he said that during visitations where prisoners and visitors are able to make physical contact the visitors have to be searched. Otherwise they sit either side of the table and are not allowed to make physical contact. I think there could be an option to make a system like that in the game, whereby implementing it reduces the inflow of contraband but also reduced the benefits to prisoner happiness from a visit.
That's another good suggestion!

And once again, I believe that's something that could be implemented fairly easily through prison policy. Have an option that lowers the contraband obtained through visitation, but also lowers the benefit to the "family" need prisoners receive from visitation. So that's a checkbox that changes a couple of numbers; pretty easy to implement but increases the player's ability to control their prison.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby EddieG » Fri May 23, 2014 3:06 am

This is pretty easily resolved. I'll describe my methodology in the order that the prisoners see them:

1.) 2x K9 patrols in the delivery area. Why 2? In case one is taking a break.
2.) Metal Detector entering the prison itself.
3.) Metal Detector entering the cell block.
4.) Policy set to search everything for everything. I don't care if they are unnecessarily searched. If they don't want to be searched, they shouldn't be in a prison.

The only things that have gotten through are cell phones and batons. As an additional side note - these prisoners show up in cuffs. This isn't a local jail, it is a flat out prison. They've been convicted of a crime and should be arriving with nothing but prison uniforms and handcuffs buuuuuuuuut it is indeed more fun to ignore reality on this one. I love it when the metal detectors initiate a search and they find hedge clippers.... how do you smuggle hedge clippers?

With regards to visitation (and cleaning closet) - stick a dog outside.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby planettop92 » Fri May 23, 2014 3:49 am

EddieG wrote:They've been convicted of a crime and should be arriving with nothing but prison uniforms and handcuffs buuuuuuuuut it is indeed more fun to ignore reality on this one.


^this is probably the reason why this issue is around in the first place. Realistically, new prisoners shouldn't have any contraband on them upon arrival. I think IV made this design choice early on so that (1) it's more fun, and (2) to challenge players on creating a contraband-free prison (to the best of their abilities within the game's constraints). As you've mentioned, it's pretty easily resolved and not really that big of a challenge though. The most common solutions just happen to be (1) frequent searches and (2) guard patrols and metal detector placement. There's more than one solution, and the player gets to figure out that out for him/herself.

xander wrote:One assume that *if* IV plan on changing this model in the future, *then* searching visitors might become part of the game.


I really hope this "if" becomes a "when." It'll give the players more to think about as to the design of their prisons during the early game. Other than adding another feature to the Prison Policy, it could also be an optional research option in the Bureaucracy menu.
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Re: [Suggestion] Prison Policy to search all new prisoners

Postby Sneak69 » Fri May 23, 2014 8:55 pm

How real life works.

Prisoners are searched every time they enter and leave a building. (Prison, court ect...)

How the process works, Person is convicted. they are taken to the holding cell with in the court to await transport to prison. Convict is searched and placed in cell.
Transport crew arrives, takes convict from cell searches them, places them in cuffs and shackles, usually attached to 5 other convicts and then placed in transport van/"bus".
"Bus" arrives at jail, transport crew takes convicts into jail, to A&D (admittance and discharge) where they are striped searched, and removed of all civilian clothes and given prison jump suits. (Notice how they arrive to the prison in their clothes...)

Only time prisoners arrive to jail in orange jumpsuits is when they come in from another jail. In which they are still strip searched upon arrival of new jail.

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