[Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

(previously 'DEVELOPER') Private forum for registered community members. To register, please visit www.prison-architect.com/register.

Moderator: NBJeff

Jailer
level2
level2
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:29 pm

[Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby Jailer » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:02 am

Whenever it is time to shower or eat my shower rooms and canteens are flooded with prisoners all trying to find a space to shower/eat.

When they are done showering/eating the regime forces them to stay in the shower/canteen and wait until the regime is done. They are blocking room (and cluttering my view :) ) for other prisoners still wanting to eat/shower.

I end up trying to make the best of it by installing toilets/phones in both shower and canteen - but who really wants to shower next to a toilet in use? Also, it is not very realistic..

I can imagine you want to force prisoners to use the yard (legally they need to have some outside time), but not force them to stay in a room (other than their cell ;-) )

Suggestion:
Set the shower and eat regime so that when the prisoner has eaten/showered (s)he has fulfilled conditions for the regime and has free time regime instead (and thus is free to leave)
lugaru
level3
level3
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby lugaru » Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:28 pm

Yeah, my canteen has a public bathroom (separated by a door but still considered part of the canteen) and some TV'S because those things are plausible, but motly I do 1 hour meals with a break after each meal... meaning people who are not done eating usually finish eating during the break, everyone else gets either hangs out (for the TV or bench comfort) or they get out to do other stuff.

That is in the meantime, I would not mind if they have no 'need' for those buildings, they dont show up or leave once the need is satisfied.
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby xander » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:36 pm

A quick review for those who have forgotten (I say this not because I assume that the above posters don't know it, but because it is important to my points below): the regime system works by ordering the prisoners to go to a specific building during that time slot. Sleep means "go to your cell," eat means "go to the canteen," yard means "go to the yard" and so on. Any needs that can be fulfilled in the given room will be fulfilled, according to a priority that is (I assume) hard coded into the game. The only setting which does not follow this outline is the freetime setting (I suppose one might argue that work can have a similar effect, since only those assigned to work will do anything specific).

Your proposal of allowing prisoners to leave the canteen or shower once their needs have been met would have a couple of effects that I think you may not have considered:

The shower setting would become completely indistinguishable from freetime. Currently, if a prisoner needs to shower during freetime, they will go to the nearest shower and clean up. What you propose is that, during the shower regime setting, prisoners should only shower if they need to shower. There would be no difference between the shower setting and the freetime setting. I suppose that one could argue that the internal prioritization of needs could be rejiggered so that showing is prioritized during shower time, but I think that the in-game feedback in such a situation would be kind of confusing and ambiguous (again, there would be little difference to the player between freetime and shower time). I think that any approach would pretty much eliminate the need for a shower setting entirely.

The argument for meal times is somewhat more subtle, and I don't know how I actually feel about it. On the one hand, the general approach that the game has is that during freetime, prisoners can fulfill any need that they like, except eating and sleeping (unless it is night). Moreover, the eat setting does a couple of things beyond simply herding prisoners around, in that it gives the kitchen a target for having food ready to go. No food is prepared until a few hours before the scheduled meal time. Hence simply allowing prisoners to eat during freetime would not solve the problem of getting prisoners fed (this is kind of the opposite problem that one has with showers). This argues in favor of making meal time a freetime plus open canteen kind of block (side note: we could eliminate the eat setting entirely, and replace it with a control on the canteen---the canteen can be either open or closed; while it is open, the cooks will serve food and prisoners can go to the kitchen (assuming they have no other tasks to do) and eat if they are hungry; otherwise, the canteen is closed and prisoners cannot go there to eat---this might be interesting, but I see unforseen consequences in terms of actually satisfying the need to eat if other needs take priority in a given block of freetime).

On the other hand, I use the herding of prisoners around and requiring that they go to particular rooms is an important part of the game. It can alert the player to suspicious behaviour (seeing a prisoner outside of the assigned room should set off alarms), and can be used by the player to manage contraband and satisfaction of other needs. Requiring prisoners to go to the canteen is (in my opinion) an important part of that system.

xander
Jailer
level2
level2
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:29 pm

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby Jailer » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:50 am

xander wrote:The shower setting would become completely indistinguishable from freetime. Currently, if a prisoner needs to shower during freetime, they will go to the nearest shower and clean up.


xander wrote:Hence simply allowing prisoners to eat during freetime would not solve the problem of getting prisoners fed


That misses the point I was making.
In freetime prisoners pursue (I assume) the highest need first (if available), then second highest, and so on.

The 'enhanced' regimes for shower and eating indicate they MUST go to a shower/canteen and have a shower/eat food, REGARDLESS of their level of need for it. BUT - after they have done that then the rest of the regime is freetime.
So you do get to steer them to the specific rooms, but once they fulfilled the hygiene/food need, they can leave (and take care of other needs).
This way you can ensure your prisoners are clean/fed at certain times of the day and also have more chance to fulfill other needs if there is time.
5hifty
level4
level4
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:22 am

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby 5hifty » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:28 am

If something like this was implemented, I would definitely want it to be optional. My prison is... well a prison. I don't want to be monitoring people wandering around the yard when they should all be either in the canteen or solitary. What if there was a riot during chow time? Instead of guards rushing in to the cafe to resolve the situation, I would have prisoners all over my prison running amok.

Its a prison, not a college campus.
Jailer
level2
level2
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:29 pm

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby Jailer » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:29 am

5hifty wrote:What if there was a riot during chow time?

The fewer prisoners packed together in a better mood the less likely there is a riot IMO - if 200 people are packed in a canteen for 2 hours with nothing to do temperature would be rising quicker, and you have 200 people rioting instead of maybe the 50 that are still eating/have not eaten yet. Also, the rest would be fulfilling other needs, be happier and therefore be less likely to riot.

5hifty wrote:Its a prison, not a college campus.

I fully agree - we don't want to make it too easy on them!

I just dislike having a regime where we say: you will now stand in the shower room for an hour. That just doesn't make sense.
User avatar
xander
level5
level5
Posts: 16869
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:41 pm
Location: Highland, CA, USA
Contact:

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby xander » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:36 pm

Jailer wrote:That misses the point I was making.
In freetime prisoners pursue (I assume) the highest need first (if available), then second highest, and so on.

The 'enhanced' regimes for shower and eating indicate they MUST go to a shower/canteen and have a shower/eat food, REGARDLESS of their level of need for it. BUT - after they have done that then the rest of the regime is freetime.
So you do get to steer them to the specific rooms, but once they fulfilled the hygiene/food need, they can leave (and take care of other needs).
This way you can ensure your prisoners are clean/fed at certain times of the day and also have more chance to fulfill other needs if there is time.

What if a prisoner has no need for a shower or food? Are they still forced to go to the canteen or shower? If so, there is no difference between your system and the current system (expect that the prisoners can leave immediately, but they are still going to gather in the room in the first place, which is what your systems seems designed to prevent). If not, then how is shower time or eating time different from freetime?

xander
Citizen
level2
level2
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:09 am

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby Citizen » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:00 pm

Need a "discipline" trait or have it be a part of the "suppressed" trait that prisoners who have no need to fill and are not in their cell stand single file, in the designated room, facing the wall, rather than milling about like baby cats.
User avatar
Dajmin
level1
level1
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:56 pm
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby Dajmin » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:34 pm

To be honest I think what would help all of this stuff more is properly assigned "wings" and maybe 15 or 30-minute regime periods. If you could send A-Wing to breakfast while B-Wing showers, then swap them over half an hour later, you keep everyone away from each other and stop them just kicking around while the timer counts down. I actually think this might have been suggested before though.
lugaru
level3
level3
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby lugaru » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:30 pm

Yeah, I mean most of us dont bother scheduling shower time anymore since people can do that well during free time and yard time (for those who schedule that) but meal time could be more flexible. Personaly I stick a shower in every cell behind a half wall.

Also: if satiated prisoners do not need to go to the cafeteria, they can make mischief or work on productive things. I love the idea of smuggling food for those who want to avoid the cafeteria, and it can be detected by dogs. Why avoid the cafeteria? Well if gangs are introduced, it is a great place to get shived. Also most of 'us' put metal detectors at the cafeteria.
5hifty
level4
level4
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:22 am

Re: [Suggestion] More flexible shower and eat regime

Postby 5hifty » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:24 pm

Jailer wrote:
5hifty wrote:What if there was a riot during chow time?

The fewer prisoners packed together in a better mood the less likely there is a riot IMO - if 200 people are packed in a canteen for 2 hours with nothing to do temperature would be rising quicker, and you have 200 people rioting instead of maybe the 50 that are still eating/have not eaten yet. Also, the rest would be fulfilling other needs, be happier and therefore be less likely to riot.


I would disagree there. In the even of a riot, I like to be able to lock down, assemble a response team, an send them in. If they aren't all generally in the right place I can't focus my force. I would be ok with shorter regime sections, 15-30 min, or possibly a 'return to cell', but when I tell my prisoners to be somewhere, they better have a damn good reason for not being there.

Also, when things start to get hot, I have the option of an armed guard doing a walk thro to bring everyone to their senses until whatever' issue is causing the tension can be resolved.

Return to “Community Members”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests