[Suggestion] Electrical Wiring Crossover

[Triple Omega]

Currently when two electrical wires of different power stations touch each other, both power stations shut down. My suggestion is a special crossover wire that allows two wires of different power stations on the same tile without connecting.
This solves the problem that currently occurs when new(power requiring) areas are created in the middle of an already existing network of wiring connected to a maxed out power station.

[xander]

As the game currently stands, you are rewarded for planning ahead, and punished for failing to plan ahead. This is true in terms of establishing facilities for prisoners, as well as in terms of putting your utilities in place. If you plan for expansion, you will do well, and if you decide to expand in an ad hoc manner, you are going to have to do a lot of extra work. The current state of affairs vis-a-vis keeping different power stations on separate, non-intersecting, non-overlapping circuits is in keeping with that philosophy. Some kind of wiring crossover would alter this balance, and as someone who rather likes the current balance, I don't really like the idea of a dedicated crossover.

I would also point out that, while you can't have one circuit overlap another, it is possible to use the switches that currently exist to excise a portion of a given circuit, then install new power station to run that circuit. My general procedure is to install a switch right next to the intended location of the new power station and turn that switch off. Then I install the power station and a switch to disconnect the portion of the circuit that I want to power. Finally, I turn the second switch off (thus powering down the region of interest) and turn the first switch on (thus providing power to that area again). I know that this isn't quite what you want, as it requires that you put a power station in the middle of an area which may already be highly developed, but I would argue that this is the cost of not planning ahead.

xander

[Triple Omega]

I agree that planning ahead should be rewarded, but unfortunately this is not always possible.

For example adding new workshops to an area with already existing workshops. It is easy for the power requirement to exceed the limits of your first power station and the wiring being in the way of a second station. However even knowing this would happen ahead of time you still cannot solve the problem without buying a second power station early and that is quite an investment.

Also in larger prisons the layout of wiring itself can currently prevent the use of a centralised power system. It also doesn't help that there are no indications anywhere as to the power requirement of anything, making planning ahead difficult.

Lastly I'd like to note that the current system doesn't actually require any of the planning ahead that you suggest if you choose to use a de-centralised power system. Building ad hoc is no problem as you can plop down a power station anywhere you want. It currently just makes building a centralised system harder then it should be in my opinion.

[xander]

For example adding new workshops to an area with already existing workshops. It is easy for the power requirement to exceed the limits of your first power station and the wiring being in the way of a second station. However even knowing this would happen ahead of time you still cannot solve the problem without buying a second power station early and that is quite an investment.

Or you leave space for a new power station without installing it, and run the workshop off of the main power station until you get close to the capacity of that station. Then use the procedure outlined above. The problem can be solved by planning ahead. I would note also that, even without planning ahead, it is possible to expand a workshop and put in a new power station without crossing the streams. It just takes a bit more work if you haven't planned ahead.

Also in larger prisons the layout of wiring itself can currently prevent the use of a centralised power system. It also doesn't help that there are no indications anywhere as to the power requirement of anything, making planning ahead difficult.

I agree that some indication of how much power each item uses would be nice. That is actually a pretty good idea. So that other people are sure to see it:

Items that use electricity should have some indication in the objects or utilities menu indicating how much power they will use when active.

Lastly I'd like to note that the current system doesn't actually require any of the planning ahead that you suggest if you choose to use a de-centralised power system. Building ad hoc is no problem as you can plop down a power station anywhere you want. It currently just makes building a centralised system harder then it should be in my opinion.

One might argue that intentionally building in a decentralized manner is a form of planning ahead. Alternatively, if there really is no master plan, they player will eventually be punished in other ways (prisoners will take a very long time to get from point A to point B, increasing their needs; more security might be needed to patrol larger areas, increasing the cost of running the prison; expansion will be necessary earlier, requiring more land at cost; and so on).

xander

[VoiD88]

Items that use electricity should have some indication in the objects or utilities menu indicating how much power they will use when active.

While I agree that this info would be nice in the finished game, for now it can be found on the dev wiki This page actually helped me a great deal by being able to calculate the power need of my cellblock design beforhand.

[Triple Omega]

Or you leave space for a new power station without installing it, and run the workshop off of the main power station until you get close to the capacity of that station. Then use the procedure outlined above. The problem can be solved by planning ahead. I would note also that, even without planning ahead, it is possible to expand a workshop and put in a new power station without crossing the streams. It just takes a bit more work if you haven't planned ahead.

Firstly I do not view having to reconfigure existing wiring setups as acceptable "planning ahead". Having to power down in-use sections of your prison seems like a very strange thing to me. Secondly you cannot prevent "crossing the streams" if the area with the workshops is surrounded by other areas being powered by the first power station.

One might argue that intentionally building in a decentralized manner is a form of planning ahead.

It is indeed a viable way of building. I am only concerned for the centralised approach as de-centralised seems to work fine.

Alternatively, if there really is no master plan, they player will eventually be punished in other ways (prisoners will take a very long time to get from point A to point B, increasing their needs; more security might be needed to patrol larger areas, increasing the cost of running the prison; expansion will be necessary earlier, requiring more land at cost; and so on).

They will indeed, but this does not take away from the fact that ad hoc building is not currently punished through the power system as suggested.

[r0y]

Maybe we could just have "Power Station" renamed to "Circuit Breaker" to avoid confusion? Then the capacitors can be additional circuits or something (higher AMP breakers, etc). Power should come from the municipal grid, then we could have an optional emergency backup generator! Oooo....

Not like we'd ever see linked generators...

[xander]

Firstly I do not view having to reconfigure existing wiring setups as acceptable "planning ahead". Having to power down in-use sections of your prison seems like a very strange thing to me.

I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this---it is entirely a matter of opinion. That being said, the changeover can basically be done while the game is paused, and so nothing ever really gets powered down. It is simply a matter of throwing two switches.

Secondly you cannot prevent "crossing the streams" if the area with the workshops is surrounded by other areas being powered by the first power station.

My own experience argues otherwise. I am perfectly capable of powering a prison without having different circuits interact with each other, even with large workshops in the middle of everything. Your claim that "...you cannot prevent 'crossing the streams'" in such a situation directly contradicts my own style of play. I explained how to go about doing it above (or, at least, the method that I employ). You may not like my solution, or you may find that my solution is not the ideal solution from a gameplay perspective---these are opinions that I can respect, even if I don't share them. However, your absolute factual claim that it cannot be done is directly contradicted by reality.

Since we are arguing a matter of opinion, here is how things seem to stand at the moment: you believe that a new gameplay element ought to be created in order to solve the perceived problem of powering areas that have been surrounded by other circuits. I believe that there is no problem, and offered techniques for working within the game as it currently stands. We can argue until we're blue in the face, and either Chris will implement your idea or he won't. However, since you are the one asking for change, it might make sense to attempt to learn to deal with the status quo, as it seems more likely than not that the power system will remain significantly unchanged (since people have been suggesting various alterations since alpha 1, yes the power system remains basically the same as in that alpha).

Alternatively, if there really is no master plan, they player will eventually be punished in other ways (prisoners will take a very long time to get from point A to point B, increasing their needs; more security might be needed to patrol larger areas, increasing the cost of running the prison; expansion will be necessary earlier, requiring more land at cost; and so on).

They will indeed, but this does not take away from the fact that ad hoc building is not currently punished through the power system as suggested.

You seem to have missed my point. I am not suggesting that building in a haphazard manner without a plan should be punished through the power system. I am suggesting that the two extreme approaches (highly detailed planning vs a completely ad hoc approach) are equally difficult to manage, though for different reasons. Maintaining a master plan require careful consideration of what is to be built and when, but is rewarding because many of the management tasks are easier. Haphazard building can be more expensive and lead to difficulty managing day-to-day tasks, but is more flexible and can change on the fly more easily. Both approaches should be viable, and both approaches should provide unique challenges and rewards. Managing the power system is simply one of the challenges of highly centralized planning.

r0y: I've always assumed that they were called "Power Stations" rather than "Power Generators" because they are pulling power off of the municipal grid in some manner rather than generating their own power. Whether the gameplay constraints placed upon them are realistic or not is another point (maybe there is a city ordinance that prevents multiple power stations from operating on the same circuit because that would make billing more difficult?), but the picture of generators that you posted seems tangential. Power stations are something other than generators, and their strange behaviour in-game can be explained away by that fact. :P

xander

[Triple Omega]

My own experience argues otherwise. I am perfectly capable of powering a prison without having different circuits interact with each other, even with large workshops in the middle of everything. Your claim that "...you cannot prevent 'crossing the streams'" in such a situation directly contradicts my own style of play. I explained how to go about doing it above (or, at least, the method that I employ). You may not like my solution, or you may find that my solution is not the ideal solution from a gameplay perspective---these are opinions that I can respect, even if I don't share them. However, your absolute factual claim that it cannot be done is directly contradicted by reality.

I am not claiming in any way that it cannot be done with YOUR style of play. I am claiming that in REALITY I've experienced problems with workshop areas being surrounded by wiring by the time a second power station was required. I did indeed need to rewire existing parts of my prison to get power to the new workshops and as I stated above I do not appreciate that requirement.

Since we are arguing a matter of opinion, here is how things seem to stand at the moment: you believe that a new gameplay element ought to be created in order to solve the perceived problem of powering areas that have been surrounded by other circuits. I believe that there is no problem, and offered techniques for working within the game as it currently stands. We can argue until we're blue in the face, and either Chris will implement your idea or he won't. However, since you are the one asking for change, it might make sense to attempt to learn to deal with the status quo, as it seems more likely than not that the power system will remain significantly unchanged (since people have been suggesting various alterations since alpha 1, yes the power system remains basically the same as in that alpha).

You are taking an entire paragraph to say "deal with it" here. I do not appreciate this. We are here on an Alpha forum to discuss game mechanics and possible improvements to the game. Just because you like the current system does not mean that other people should just deal with it and not offer suggestions. All I did with my OP was offer a suggestion. This does not in any way mean that I am not capable of dealing with the current situation, it just means that I think it can be improved.

[r0y]

That photo is from Hoover Dam in Nevada (USA). Yeah, generators are not in series (several electrical reasons why), there's usually a bridging device to combine and add up the voltage (amps stay the same, obviously).

I love how planning ahead IS really rewarded in the game... unless that planning ahead involves lights... grrr. When, oh when, will we get foundations that are just foundations?

[lunaticneko]

Actually I don't want the crossover junction. I want the player to manage each phase separately, with each phase never shorting when overlapped, unless the overlap is on the generator's output terminals themselves. It would allow far larger, more complex prisons to be constructed. This is due to my policy that I want to have all security devices on a separate phase with a failover generator that can be switched to (open one switch, close another). Also, I want 3-phase generator for workshop equipment, too. Just for my role-play reasons.

[Jailer]

I don't need crossovers - gives you something extra to plan.
Rather, I want the different circuits to have more distinct colo(u)rs instead of virtually the same shades of green. As it is visible in the Utilities tab only, why not just use green/yellow/red/blue/brown/pink/orange and if more circuits are created then create random RGB settings. Or better still, have a button on the power station where you can set the colour of the circuit.

[CheezBurger35]

As the game currently stands, you are rewarded for planning ahead, and punished for failing to plan ahead.

I agree that it's up to the player to plan ahead with their utilities, maybe adding wires and pipes to the planning section could make this easier to do.