Needs escalating rapidly during night time

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blackleaf
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Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby blackleaf » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:26 pm

This is a problem I have been having mostly in alpha 18, although the hygiene need was a problem in alpha 17.

Is this a bug, or am I missing something?

So anyway, it is night time, and my prisoner's needs are pretty much taken care of.

Now, flash forward 7 hours later, and it is time to wake up, and:

* My prisoner's hygiene needs are red level
* My prisoner's family needs are red level
* My prisoner's recreation needs are red level

Bed time, everyone is satisfied. Day break, massive riot time.

I watch the needs grow at night sometimes. The escalation rate is UNREAL fast in growth sometimes.

What is going on?
balfro
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby balfro » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:38 pm

Here is how i deal with it. Send them to the yard. (Where i have armed guards suppressing them.) Or to the shower. Some might kick off on the way there. But that depends on the prison.
thekillergreece
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby thekillergreece » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:32 pm

Always have around 4-5 free time hours in regime. This could solve lowering the high need of any need. Of course, install tv in every prisoner's cell.
variablenonsense
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby variablenonsense » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:48 am

Neither of those suggestions deal with the fact that the needs increase extremely quickly while prisoners are sleeping. My regime is nothing but work and free time and during the day all of my needs drop to fully contented. However, when they're sleeping everything skyrockets upward.

My suggestion is that needs should increase slower when a prisoner is sleeping. After all, when you're sleeping you're not out getting dirty, you're not sitting and thinking about how much you miss your family, etc. The only thing that logically should increase at the same rate as day would be hunger and bladder needs, really. :T And even hunger is debatable, since your metabolism slows during sleep.
nini
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby nini » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:11 am

This is a beta balancing issue, worry about it then.
tHe_silent_H
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby tHe_silent_H » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:31 pm

Best way to deal with it is micro management, have meals just b4 they go to bed( so the don't explode from that, then set the wake up as shower/yard, as soon as all prisners are awake set to free time( they don;t wake if it's free time normally) then set back to shower for tmoz. reapeat everyday till you go back a few alpha's where that didn't happen
HerrJoebob
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby HerrJoebob » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:49 pm

If all their needs are met at bedtime, hygiene should be the only problem in the morning. The way I handle that is to have a dedicated shower hour first thing and a shower room in every cell block (I also don't cram more than about 20 inmates per block). Combine that with showers in the yard and I can have an all-max prison with limited murders. My current prison has about 250 inmates with only 3 murders after almost 60 days*.

2 of the murders were shower shivs committed by Christoph Delay and he keeps failing behavioral therapy. :P

* I'm not counting staff deaths from a riot I stupidly caused by starting shakedown too late one night so it was still going when shower time started. If I start shakedown just as they're heading to bed it doesn't have that problem.
variablenonsense
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby variablenonsense » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:47 am

nini wrote:This is a beta balancing issue, worry about it then.


Seriously?

The point of the forum / early access is feedback, and even if it is a balancing issue it may affect other things - such as new adjustments or features being added to compensate. So really why would you tell anyone not to worry about something now in the forum that's precisely for that?
nini
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby nini » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:23 am

Because it's not something that'll be changed until then because of such adjustments or features, it's not really to be a jackass or anything but how the devs are doing it. They're doing the old school method of development by alpha being all about features and bug fixing coming up in the beta stage unless they're actually critical or gamebreaking. Can't blame me for relaying this, just telling you what they're upto but if enough folk complain about something enough they'll usually listen and try a fix.
Person012345
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby Person012345 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:19 am

It's not a game breaking problem. Just have them a shower at waking up time (as mentioned, things can kick off, if you have a max security prison with high risk prisoners institute a taser rollout and disturbances should be dealt with, lower risk prisons won't generaly have trouble in that shor time), give them an hour of nothing so they can take a pee and a poo then give them breakfast. 3 hours of free time, then the rest is flexible. I don't exactl like it, the way it's set out right now doesn't give me much flexibility in how I lay out my regimes (pretty much every prison I have is forced into identical routines just to stop them rioting and satisfy the needs of the prisoners before I have them start learning), but it's not game breaking.
Arakash
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby Arakash » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:51 pm

Person012345 wrote:It's not a game breaking problem. Just have them a shower at waking up time (as mentioned, things can kick off, if you have a max security prison with high risk prisoners institute a taser rollout and disturbances should be dealt with, lower risk prisons won't generaly have trouble in that shor time), give them an hour of nothing so they can take a pee and a poo then give them breakfast. 3 hours of free time, then the rest is flexible. I don't exactl like it, the way it's set out right now doesn't give me much flexibility in how I lay out my regimes (pretty much every prison I have is forced into identical routines just to stop them rioting and satisfy the needs of the prisoners before I have them start learning), but it's not game breaking.


I just thought id mention that even with a taser rollout, the showers in my 200 prisoner max security prison are the most difficult places to manage.
I give them plenty of free time and have them eat and then have free time right before sleep, so they go to bed quite happy.
It consistently raises up to medium warning level almost immediately when the regime hits showers in the morning.
My showers take about 20-40 prisoners each and without a good 4 guards, it can turn quickly into a riot. I know this because the only time ive had riots (in 50-60 days) is at this part of the regime.
Everywhere else in my max security prison has much fewer guards. There is only two guards watching the entire 200+ eat/yard for e.g.
Ive attempted various things to try to reduce the risk, such as increasing the size of the showers, managing regimes and even starting the morning with free time, but the only consistent way ive found of dealing with it is high ratios of guards, or armored guards.


Personally i dont mind having violent or rowdy max security prisoners, but i wish there was some way for me to manage the morning shower part of the routine without just throwing guards or armed guards at the problem.
I also wish rather than just being aggressive at one time of the day, their behavior was a bit more random/violent and hard to predict during the rest of the day even with needs met.
Person012345
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby Person012345 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:10 pm

Arakash wrote:
Person012345 wrote:It's not a game breaking problem. Just have them a shower at waking up time (as mentioned, things can kick off, if you have a max security prison with high risk prisoners institute a taser rollout and disturbances should be dealt with, lower risk prisons won't generaly have trouble in that shor time), give them an hour of nothing so they can take a pee and a poo then give them breakfast. 3 hours of free time, then the rest is flexible. I don't exactl like it, the way it's set out right now doesn't give me much flexibility in how I lay out my regimes (pretty much every prison I have is forced into identical routines just to stop them rioting and satisfy the needs of the prisoners before I have them start learning), but it's not game breaking.


I just thought id mention that even with a taser rollout, the showers in my 200 prisoner max security prison are the most difficult places to manage.
I give them plenty of free time and have them eat and then have free time right before sleep, so they go to bed quite happy.
It consistently raises up to medium warning level almost immediately when the regime hits showers in the morning.
My showers take about 20-40 prisoners each and without a good 4 guards, it can turn quickly into a riot. I know this because the only time ive had riots (in 50-60 days) is at this part of the regime.
Everywhere else in my max security prison has much fewer guards. There is only two guards watching the entire 200+ eat/yard for e.g.
Ive attempted various things to try to reduce the risk, such as increasing the size of the showers, managing regimes and even starting the morning with free time, but the only consistent way ive found of dealing with it is high ratios of guards, or armored guards.


Personally i dont mind having violent or rowdy max security prisoners, but i wish there was some way for me to manage the morning shower part of the routine without just throwing guards or armed guards at the problem.
I also wish rather than just being aggressive at one time of the day, their behavior was a bit more random/violent and hard to predict during the rest of the day even with needs met.

Indeed, I had a riot on the way to the showers once this alpha, first time it's happened to me. It led to 20 deaths after they killed my guards and I had to send in the armed guard to retake it. After that I rolled out tasers. I've generally found that 2 or 3 guards is sufficient to quell most trouble in the showers (also taking between 20 and 40 prisoners at a time).
Blutvogt
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby Blutvogt » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:48 pm

For me the same problem. I had high res prisoners and it works. But after wake up i got trouble with my prisoners. Sure, i can change my regime from Shower to Free time after wake up, but i don't want to change it always.

What i need is a regime option to set the wake up time for your prison.
Sparrrrow
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby Sparrrrow » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:51 pm

Blutvogt wrote:
What i need is a regime option to set the wake up time for your prison.


it is called shower time
Blutvogt
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Re: Needs escalating rapidly during night time

Postby Blutvogt » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:02 pm

Sparrrrow wrote:it is called shower time


I know, but in this time the prisoners going to up set always. With low or mid level prisoners it this okay, but with high level prisoners i got always problems. The only helpful idea is to install toilets in the shower maybe.

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