Suggestions from a Criminologist

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mcgillicuddy
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Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby mcgillicuddy » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:39 pm

When I received my masters degree in criminology I did my thesis on corrections. So as someone who has studied the corrections system for years this game presents a lot of unique ways to replicate a very realistic corrections setting. I have just a few suggestions that would help replicate realism.

TOWERS
- Every prison in the country has guard towers so this is a feature that should be added, however minimal. They can serve as an armed barrier option overlooking the prison as a whole.

SCHEDULING
- It would be great if we could alter schedules based on security risk. For instance, setting separate schedules by risk classification (i.e. Maximum, medium and minimum)

RIVALRY SYSTEM/HATE SYSTEM
- It would be interesting to see a dynamic introduced where one prisoner could "offend" another prisoner by certain actions, such as not moving out of there way quick enough, eating at a table they were going to eat at or taking a shower spot that the other prisoner wanted, and then have that prisoner be targeted by the person they offended.

GANG SYSTEM
- There have been numerous posts on here about gangs and I agree with much of what has already been written. There should be several gang types by classic affiliation (aryans, crips, bloods, northern mexicans, southern mexicans, etc..)
- Gangs should have an identfied leader or "shotcaller" who holds influence over other gang members
- Current incoming prisoners should be able to be influenced by a gang of a similar race to join or be "jumped in" and refusal to do so will target that potential member by the gang as a whole

CONTRABAND
- Currently much of the contraband I am finding is done so with metal detectors however there are some items that wont alert through these gates. The option for strip searches should be included, as well as the option to search visitors coming into the prison for contraband.

DISCIPLINE SYSTEM
- While I like the current system of being able to customize a prisoner receiving solitary/lockdown for different offenses it needs to be taken a step further. For instance, in real life if a prisoner murdered another prisoner, they wouldn't just be sent to solitary. They would also be tried for that crime and if convicted their sentence would increase. This would be a cool feature to implement.

LIFE SENTENCES
- I currently have one prison with only MAX level prisoners, and all of my prisoners who have murder sentences are only serving 25 years for the offense. Instead, this should be a life sentence, and if it is a 2nd or 3rd degree conviction there should be a parole feature, which leads me to....

PAROLE
- In real life criminals can be put before a parole board before there sentence is up. It would be interesting to have this feature so that when a criminal is up for parole we see their risk level as well as all of their misbehavior within prison.
EXECUTIONS
- While I know that the death penalty is not yet here and will probably be in a future build it would be realistic if the prisoners had to wait for their appeals process to go through. For instance, a death row inmate could actually sit on death row for 20 years before being executed.
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby nini » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:53 pm

mcgillicuddy wrote:When I received my masters degree in criminology I did my thesis on corrections. So as someone who has studied the corrections system for years this game presents a lot of unique ways to replicate a very realistic corrections setting. I have just a few suggestions that would help replicate realism.

Note: this is not reality nor is it supposed to replicate it in a practical sense. It'll get close but "is it fun?" will come far ahead of "is it realistic?". Also, the game is not intended to replicate any specific country or how they run prisons so it might not apply. Anyway, let's get past the perennials (guard towers, per risk level/wing scheduling, rvialry/gang system, more contraband) and onto the interesting things.

mcgillicuddy wrote:DISCIPLINE SYSTEM
- While I like the current system of being able to customize a prisoner receiving solitary/lockdown for different offenses it needs to be taken a step further. For instance, in real life if a prisoner murdered another prisoner, they wouldn't just be sent to solitary. They would also be tried for that crime and if convicted their sentence would increase. This would be a cool feature to implement.

They know this, I think it'll be implemented at some point for grievous acts to end up with an increased sentence.

mcgillicuddy wrote:LIFE SENTENCES
- I currently have one prison with only MAX level prisoners, and all of my prisoners who have murder sentences are only serving 25 years for the offense. Instead, this should be a life sentence, and if it is a 2nd or 3rd degree conviction there should be a parole feature, which leads me to....

PAROLE
- In real life criminals can be put before a parole board before there sentence is up. It would be interesting to have this feature so that when a criminal is up for parole we see their risk level as well as all of their misbehavior within prison.

Parole is there, just not functional as dealing with the term times and parole are tweaks they're saving for the beta phase of development when they can balance the game so murderers aren't out in 10 years and others in 124 years without dying and of course make it horrifically difficult and chaotic. I do like the idea that you might be responsible or on the board for parole hearings.

mcgillicuddy wrote:EXECUTIONS
- While I know that the death penalty is not yet here and will probably be in a future build it would be realistic if the prisoners had to wait for their appeals process to go through. For instance, a death row inmate could actually sit on death row for 20 years before being executed.

Death row will most likely make it in, there might not be a twenty year wait involved as it's not supposed to reflect the US jail system in microcosm but I can see something similar happening.
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby _alphaBeta_ » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:17 pm

Welcome to the forums, and thanks for the insight.

mcgillicuddy wrote:TOWERS
- Every prison in the country has guard towers so this is a feature that should be added, however minimal. They can serve as an armed barrier option overlooking the prison as a whole.

It's been suggested numerous times, and I think there's good indications that we'll get there. As we've discussed here, there needs to be some separation (or at least the option to do so) between lethally armed guards and the prisoners. That only makes sense since a shotgun, which seems to have unlimited ammunition at the moment, in the hands of a prisoner is pretty scary. I recently went through about 4 riot police, 4 regular guards, and a hog handler or two trying to get a stolen shotgun back from a prisoner.

mcgillicuddy wrote:SCHEDULING
- It would be great if we could alter schedules based on security risk. For instance, setting separate schedules by risk classification (i.e. Maximum, medium and minimum)

This has also been suggested numerous times, and I certainly agree. I'd take it very far as break things down to the 15 minute level and bring in further options in addition to the security level such as "new prisoner," "suppressed prisoner," "well behaved prisoner" etc.

mcgillicuddy wrote:RIVALRY SYSTEM/HATE SYSTEM
- It would be interesting to see a dynamic introduced where one prisoner could "offend" another prisoner by certain actions, such as not moving out of there way quick enough, eating at a table they were going to eat at or taking a shower spot that the other prisoner wanted, and then have that prisoner be targeted by the person they offended.

We discussed this in detail here recently. There indeed needs to be a system, or multiple systems, that generates some conflict between prisoners. This would spice up gameplay and realism.

mcgillicuddy wrote:GANG SYSTEM
- There have been numerous posts on here about gangs and I agree with much of what has already been written. There should be several gang types by classic affiliation (aryans, crips, bloods, northern mexicans, southern mexicans, etc..)
- Gangs should have an identfied leader or "shotcaller" who holds influence over other gang members
- Current incoming prisoners should be able to be influenced by a gang of a similar race to join or be "jumped in" and refusal to do so will target that potential member by the gang as a whole

I consider gangs to be a means of generating conflict between prisoners as stated in the previous paragraph. Gangs may be a little more obvious as well instead of some of the hidden traits that have been discussed (if you follow my link).

mcgillicuddy wrote:CONTRABAND
- Currently much of the contraband I am finding is done so with metal detectors however there are some items that wont alert through these gates. The option for strip searches should be included, as well as the option to search visitors coming into the prison for contraband.

There's been discussions in the past of having a whole new in-processing room, regime, and/or procedures. I would hope a full nondiscriminatory search would be performed on every incoming prisoner. I had some more ideas in this thread.

mcgillicuddy wrote:DISCIPLINE SYSTEM
- While I like the current system of being able to customize a prisoner receiving solitary/lockdown for different offenses it needs to be taken a step further. For instance, in real life if a prisoner murdered another prisoner, they wouldn't just be sent to solitary. They would also be tried for that crime and if convicted their sentence would increase. This would be a cool feature to implement.

LIFE SENTENCES
- I currently have one prison with only MAX level prisoners, and all of my prisoners who have murder sentences are only serving 25 years for the offense. Instead, this should be a life sentence, and if it is a 2nd or 3rd degree conviction there should be a parole feature, which leads me to....

PAROLE
- In real life criminals can be put before a parole board before there sentence is up. It would be interesting to have this feature so that when a criminal is up for parole we see their risk level as well as all of their misbehavior within prison.

EXECUTIONS
- While I know that the death penalty is not yet here and will probably be in a future build it would be realistic if the prisoners had to wait for their appeals process to go through. For instance, a death row inmate could actually sit on death row for 20 years before being executed.

It's been suggested in the past as well that there should be some loose connections to the outside world regarding the death penalty, parole, increased/decreased sentences etc., and I certainly agree. More reading here. The parole system is there in pieces since my understanding of the blue outline when viewing a prisoner's sentence shows when they'd be eligible. Of course there's no core system yet to handle that.
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby DaniDE » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:36 pm

mcgillicuddy wrote:TOWERS
- Every prison in the country has guard towers


Which country?

mcgillicuddy wrote:EXECUTIONS
- While I know that the death penalty is not yet here and will probably be in a future build it would be realistic if the prisoners had to wait for their appeals process to go through. For instance, a death row inmate could actually sit on death row for 20 years before being executed.


How humane :/

Ok I know which country you are from now. I support your suggestion in itself, however my only wish is that the whole death penalty thing will be optional, because I would not really enjoy the game with that enforced. You know how backwardly we central europeans are, we don´t sentence people to death here :-D
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby coathan » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:41 am

mcgillicuddy wrote:SCHEDULING
- It would be great if we could alter schedules based on security risk. For instance, setting separate schedules by risk classification (i.e. Maximum, medium and minimum)

+1 from me, maximum security prisoners always riot in the showers causing disruptions to min and normal prisoners.
mcgillicuddy wrote:PAROLE
- In real life criminals can be put before a parole board before their sentence is up. It would be interesting to have this feature so that when a criminal is up for parole we see their risk level as well as all of their misbehavior within prison.

+1 as well, if they break parole its the players responsibility (financial or some other penalty)
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby cecilman_69 » Sat May 17, 2014 8:30 pm

Very good work, I love these suggestions. As the central European guy above me said it would be good to have death-row inmates an option as some people like to ignore that in some places of the world people are being sentenced to death for killing other people. In that respect it could be worth a prisoner type toggle to activate the ever controversial pedophile or rapist who would undoubtedly be targeted by other prisoners, and perhaps adding rape as a possible crime between inmates likely to happen in the showers as this too happens in prisons around the world. Obviously for the younger players or those with a softer heart this would require a toggling mechanism to allow the game to appeal to realist-wannabe-vigilantes and I-play-it-for-fun kinds of people alike.
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby christhekiller » Sat May 17, 2014 9:08 pm

mcgillicuddy wrote:EXECUTIONS
- While I know that the death penalty is not yet here and will probably be in a future build it would be realistic if the prisoners had to wait for their appeals process to go through. For instance, a death row inmate could actually sit on death row for 20 years before being executed.


How humane :/

Ok I know which country you are from now. I support your suggestion in itself, however my only wish is that the whole death penalty thing will be optional, because I would not really enjoy the game with that enforced. You know how backwardly we central europeans are, we don´t sentence people to death here :-D[/quote]

I do believe if it's introduced it would be optional. Perhaps it'll be another level of prisoner you can choose to accept in or not, or maybe they'll only come if you have the proper (and optional) facilities built. It would seem silly to force execution on those who don't believe it in (or want to use it)
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby simz04 » Mon May 19, 2014 9:17 am

Whats the biggest punishement? Taking a life quickly or having a person stripped of any form of liberty, forced to eat crappy food, live a in tiny concrete cell, sleep on a 2" matress, living with fucked up people with no hope of ever getting a real life again? Im really not sure i wouldnt prefer the quick death! :P
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby crazytown1 » Mon May 19, 2014 2:05 pm

its can be a bit too quick for some....

but thats off the point.

If they do introduce executions (which i hope they do) I would like to think it would be optional....as I know its something that would put some people off and ruin their fun. It would be easy enough to make it optional i'd imagine and it would keep most sides of the argument happy...
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby xander » Mon May 19, 2014 3:56 pm

crazytown1 wrote:...it would keep most sides of the argument happy...

I don't know about that. I haven't played Mass Effect and dont' really know very much about the game, but I do know that some people got really pissy about the fact that the main character could become romantically involved with a member of *gasp* the same sex. Making something optional doesn't make it go away or prevent people from being offended. You can't possibly keep everyone happy. ;)

That being said, the point should not be to avoid offending people. IV probably have some vision for what they want the game to say. That is, they probably have some narrative in mind. The mechanics that are in the game should relate to that narrative in a meaningful way. In terms of how executions will work, IV clearly intend for it to be possible to execute prisoners in some circumstances---this is evident in the tutorial level that currently exists. It may be that IV have no intention of allowing executions in the sandbox mode, and *if* they do eventually allow it, Chris is on record stating that the death penalty can only be handed down by the courts (hence we will never see the electric chair as a punishment option for infractions in the prison (unless additional judicial options are added at some point in the future)).

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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby crazytown1 » Mon May 19, 2014 5:36 pm

note i said most sides....not everyone. I am fully aware its impossible to please every single customer or potential customer.

crazytown.
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby xander » Mon May 19, 2014 6:40 pm

crazytown1 wrote:note i said most sides....not everyone.

The main thrust of my argument was not that it was impossible to please everyone (or keep anyone from being offended), but that it really shouldn't even be a factor in the decision making process. Adherence to the narrative is far more important.

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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby crazytown1 » Mon May 19, 2014 6:52 pm

You know what i love to do. Lock your prisoner in a wet room with some faulty electrical appliance and set fire to the room.

Also, do you really look like Walter White?
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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby xander » Mon May 19, 2014 7:04 pm

crazytown1 wrote:You know what i love to do. Lock your prisoner in a wet room with some faulty electrical appliance and set fire to the room.

Yup. Though I am not sure that this counts as "execution" in the traditional sense. ;)

crazytown1 wrote:Also, do you really look like Walter White?

Google suggests that Walter White is the main character of a show that I have not seen, but that he looks like this:
Image
The photo that I submitted to IV is the following:
Image
I will leave it up to you to decide how similar or dissimilar our appearances are.

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Re: Suggestions from a Criminologist

Postby crazytown1 » Mon May 19, 2014 8:24 pm

Do a few more cooks and you'll get there.


And watching breaking bad.

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