Armed Guards

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snarst
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Armed Guards

Postby snarst » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:53 pm

Hello, and liking the new alpha but I'm having some trouble. It seems to me that having armed guards is a little more trouble than it's worth (at least for max prisons). When I hire a good amount (around 16 or so) you just throw all order out the window unless your taking good care of your prisoners but they are guaranteed to riot in the morning unless you station armed guards at the shower. That does wonders for the problem until shower time is over, then it is march of the zombies as they slooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyy walk away and never get anywhere on time. (I do have cells near the shower so that might be an issue)

Am I not using them right or are armed guards not meant to be deployed in more than single digit numbers?
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby The Chosen One » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:55 pm

I have 50 guards now and only 3 armed ones. 1 guard per shower and 1 armed in the canteen and 2 circling heavy sec. blocks.
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby _alphaBeta_ » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:17 pm

I haven't experimented much with armed guards yet, but I'm thinking that during day-to-day peacetime operations your prisoners shouldn't come into contract with too many. This could be especially problematic if they're deployed in high traffic areas.

The morning hygiene issue you describe has been discussed here, and still warrants some changes of the needs system to avoid IMHO. In the interim, you may want to try some of the suggestions there that include regime tweaks and having many smaller showers throughout the prison such that prisoners start showering before starting to riot.

Out of curiosity, how many armed guards did you put in the shower in order to suppress them before the impending riot? Must have been enough to suppress in minutes since the hygiene riot happens rather quickly.
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby snarst » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:22 pm

_alphaBeta_ wrote:I haven't experimented much with armed guards yet, but I'm thinking that during day-to-day peacetime operations your prisoners shouldn't come into contract with too many. This could be especially problematic if they're deployed in high traffic areas.

The morning hygiene issue you describe has been discussed here, and still warrants some changes of the needs system to avoid IMHO. In the interim, you may want to try some of the suggestions there that include regime tweaks and having many smaller showers throughout the prison such that prisoners start showering before starting to riot.

Out of curiosity, how many armed guards did you put in the shower in order to suppress them before the impending riot? Must have been enough to suppress in minutes since the hygiene riot happens rather quickly.


I put one at the entrance of each shower since the guard already there was not doing it for them any more. Each holds 20 prisoners with a total of 7 showers with another 3 prison wings still under construction.

The problem is that the very fact that you have hired them will spike the temperature rate, meaning once you have about 10 the only way to get to get the danger bar bellow one exclamation point would be to feed them all or have virtually no complaints and everyone feeling they are being treated well.
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_alphaBeta_
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby _alphaBeta_ » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:24 pm

I'll check this out when in front of the game some more. You're saying that, like riot police, the presence of armed guards increase the prison temperature? That wasn't mentioned anywhere that I saw in the Alpha-17 video or change log so I wasn't looking for it. If that's the case, it's probably a deterrent to the player to over use them.
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby snarst » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:26 pm

_alphaBeta_ wrote:it's probably a deterrent to the player to over use them.


:cry: guess I'll have to settle for 2 or 3 at the entrance.
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby xander » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:41 pm

_alphaBeta_ wrote:I'll check this out when in front of the game some more. You're saying that, like riot police, the presence of armed guards increase the prison temperature? That wasn't mentioned anywhere that I saw in the Alpha-17 video or change log so I wasn't looking for it. If that's the case, it's probably a deterrent to the player to over use them.

The presence of armed guards increases suppression and (I think) increases the need for Freedom. The increased need for Freedom should raise the prison's temperature.

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Re: Armed Guards

Postby sutieday » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:27 pm

Armed guards need to be cheaper, you pay $500 a day for them and you are the one providing their lockers and weapons?? I think that is too much to pay and needs to change.
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby 111none » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:34 pm

My problem is the fact that I think we need just more variety, maybe longer ranged with speed issues on firing. (Ie;snipers). Because my prisoners try to escape, and having the shotguns at the front door isn't exactly a very good option.

Body count is 15 and counting.
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby thekillergreece » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:35 pm

sutieday wrote:Armed guards need to be cheaper, you pay $500 a day for them and you are the one providing their lockers and weapons?? I think that is too much to pay and needs to change.


Armed guard= Deadly and feels no sorry on killing(Much like dogs)
Guard= Very weak and feels sorry on trying to kill
Dog Handler= Same as guard
Dog= Same as armed guard but less


Now thats why armed guards are expensive...
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby thekillergreece » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:36 pm

111none wrote:My problem is the fact that I think we need just more variety, maybe longer ranged with speed issues on firing. (Ie;snipers). Because my prisoners try to escape, and having the shotguns at the front door isn't exactly a very good option.

Body count is 15 and counting.


You can change their equipment permanently by changing their equipment on materials.txt. But I dont know what happens if they lose their sniper weapons. And I dont know their range. I wish I could edit the ranges.
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby sutieday » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:37 pm

thekillergreece wrote:
sutieday wrote:Armed guards need to be cheaper, you pay $500 a day for them and you are the one providing their lockers and weapons?? I think that is too much to pay and needs to change.


Armed guard= Deadly and feels no sorry on killing(Much like dogs)
Guard= Very weak and feels sorry on trying to kill
Dog Handler= Same as guard
Dog= Same as armed guard but less


Now thats why armed guards are expensive...


Maybe worth $250 a day but not x5 the average guard wages...
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby 111none » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:40 pm

thekillergreece wrote:
111none wrote:My problem is the fact that I think we need just more variety, maybe longer ranged with speed issues on firing. (Ie;snipers). Because my prisoners try to escape, and having the shotguns at the front door isn't exactly a very good option.

Body count is 15 and counting.


You can change their equipment permanently by changing their equipment on materials.txt. But I dont know what happens if they lose their sniper weapons. And I dont know their range. I wish I could edit the ranges.


I believe it's in the Materials.txt? Can you check? ( I'm on a phone right now)
Last edited by 111none on Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thekillergreece
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby thekillergreece » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:54 pm

111none wrote:
thekillergreece wrote:
111none wrote:My problem is the fact that I think we need just more variety, maybe longer ranged with speed issues on firing. (Ie;snipers). Because my prisoners try to escape, and having the shotguns at the front door isn't exactly a very good option.

Body count is 15 and counting.


You can change their equipment permanently by changing their equipment on materials.txt. But I dont know what happens if they lose their sniper weapons. And I dont know their range. I wish I could edit the ranges.


I believe it's in the objects txt? Can you check? ( I'm on a phone right now)


I dont see any objects.txt except if you mean materials.txt
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Re: Armed Guards

Postby xander » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:02 pm

sutieday wrote:Armed guards need to be cheaper, you pay $500 a day for them and you are the one providing their lockers and weapons?? I think that is too much to pay and needs to change.

The hiring costs and salaries of units are a balancing issue. Balancing is generally something that happens later, during the beta phase of development. That being said, I can certainly see plausible justifications for making these very powerful units quite expensive to use.

111none wrote:My problem is the fact that I think we need just more variety, maybe longer ranged with speed issues on firing. (Ie;snipers). Because my prisoners try to escape, and having the shotguns at the front door isn't exactly a very good option.

Watch through the release video again. When they first mention the weapons rack, it is noted that there are sniper rifles, tasers, shotguns, and armour on the rack, but that most of these have not yet been implemented. This implies that armed guards might eventually have more options in terms of gear.

xander

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