Serving table question/bug

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ShaTiK
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Serving table question/bug

Postby ShaTiK » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:59 pm

First - I'm new to this forum, so if I should've post this to the other forum - I apologies in advance.
Now to the issue (And I've searched the dev forum but didn't find anything related, so I figured I should post it):
Image
The thing is - say I have 1 canteen and 1 kitchen, and 2 serving tables like on this screenshot (this particular prison is one of the first tries, so it is a disaster) Now what happened - one of them (lower) actually working as if it is embedded into the wall - cooks are placing food there without leaving the kitchen, and inmates are taking it. But the second one (upper one) is just standing there, not connected to the kitchen at all and cooks must have a direct access to it in order to place food.
So here is my question - is this a bug or a feature, since it would be great (and I'm sure that was mentioned like 100 times already) to have all serving tables to be like to lower one. But if it is a feature - why only one table, and the first one you place?

PS Sorry for absence of spoiler html tag - can't find it..
PPS I tried it on the more decent prison - same thing: one serving table is embedded, other ones - not so much.
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VoiD88
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby VoiD88 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:53 am

It's a bug. It depends on how you position the serving tables with respect to the walls. Objects get moved slightly if they are placed next to a wall to make them align properly, some of those alignments (including serving tables) do not work correctly yet. It can cause the table being accessible from the other side of the wall (like you described), but it can also lead to the table not being accessible at all (which I often get, that's why I'm always leaving a gap between the walls and almost all objects I place).
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby ShaTiK » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:37 am

I see. Pity, though, it would be great if serving table would always be embedded like that.. Well, later, probably, they will.
Thx for reply
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby Meeeps » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:02 pm

Why not simply remove the wall?
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby ShaTiK » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:15 pm

Meeeps wrote:Why not simply remove the wall?

Yeah.. Tried this, thinking that serving table isn't a passable object.. And I found out that it is, when 10 of 25 inmates just rushed through into the garbage area and then into the wilderness. I could've set a gate and secured the garbage area, but what I really want is serving table to be like a real serving table in a canteen - so the cooks are on the one side and inmates/customers are on the other.
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby blacksythe » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:50 am

I havn't tested this but it may suit your needs for the time being.
Go to your prison architect and open the main.dat file with an unzipping program, copy (not cut) the contents in a folder.

Open the materials.txt file and search for ServingTable.

You should see this

BEGIN Object
Name ServingTable
Width 5
ConstructionTime 1.00000
MoveSpeedFactor 0.800000
Price -20
NumSlots 5
Group StaticObject
BlockedBy Wall
BlockedBy StaticObject
BlockedBy UtilityStation
Sprite ServingTable
MadeOf Composite
ToolbarSprite ServingTableToolbar
Properties StaticObject

Change it to this
BEGIN Object
Name ServingTable
Width 5
ConstructionTime 1.00000
MoveSpeedFactor 0.800000
Price -20
NumSlots 5
Group StaticObject
BlockedBy StaticObject
BlockedBy UtilityStation
Sprite ServingTable
MadeOf Composite
ToolbarSprite ServingTableToolbar
Properties StaticObject

This should allow you to place serving tables inside walls however i haven't tested it. as I have no desire for this to be the case.

If you search how to package your file as a mod you should be able to find instructions follow these and test it in game it may give you the desired result however i recommend testing it on a small new prison as apposed to your regular save.
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Meeeps
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby Meeeps » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:28 pm

ShaTiK wrote:
Meeeps wrote:Why not simply remove the wall?

Yeah.. Tried this, thinking that serving table isn't a passable object.. And I found out that it is, when 10 of 25 inmates just rushed through into the garbage area and then into the wilderness. I could've set a gate and secured the garbage area, but what I really want is serving table to be like a real serving table in a canteen - so the cooks are on the one side and inmates/customers are on the other.


Seriously? Of course if you remove the wall, you need to secure the kitchen, didn't expect this needs to be said ;-)
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby ShaTiK » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:36 pm

Meeeps wrote:Seriously? Of course if you remove the wall, you need to secure the kitchen, didn't expect this needs to be said ;-)


Well that wasn't a given by the first time I tried to build a prison, so trial and error method is the best for these kind of games. No big deal though - just started another prison.

blacksythe wrote:I havn't tested this but it may suit your needs for the time being.


Wow, that's actually great way to make what I want. A little bit like cheating but still - many thanks, will try this method
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Meeeps
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby Meeeps » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:37 pm

ShaTiK wrote: A little bit like cheating but still - many thanks, will try this method


There is rarely someone playing this game without cheating, that is simply required to workaround the bugs and balance issues of an alpha.
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby HeroFV » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:20 pm

I'm kind of curious about the placing serving table in the wall idea... can you post a screenshot of what it looks like and give your opinion on how it is working?

Thanx
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby ShaTiK » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:47 pm

HeroFV wrote:I'm kind of curious about the placing serving table in the wall idea... can you post a screenshot of what it looks like and give your opinion on how it is working?

Thanx


Well, it was worth the try..
So if I removed parameter Blocked by Wall - I could place serving table right in the wall. And cooks will place food there. But the problem is with canteen - since serving tables are in the wall - they don't count as being in the canteen. So the serving table exists for cooks, but not for the canteen. I tried this without prisoners, just with cooks, but I think that because canteen don't detect serving tables, inmates won't be taking food from there.
There is a workaround - to make serving table to be 2 squares width, not 1 - but that would require changing the texture too.
And the last thing - not matter how bad I want to separate kitchen from canteen - there are still dirty trays and the cooks would need to take them. So *sigh* I guess I'm back to square one, that being - kitchen next to canteen with a guarded door between.

PS Haven't taken a screenshot since the whole idea failed, but the serving table was placed inside the wall, or, rather, it was placed over the wall
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby HeroFV » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:04 pm

ShaTiK wrote:
HeroFV wrote:I'm kind of curious about the placing serving table in the wall idea... can you post a screenshot of what it looks like and give your opinion on how it is working?

Thanx


Well, it was worth the try..
So if I removed parameter Blocked by Wall - I could place serving table right in the wall. And cooks will place food there. But the problem is with canteen - since serving tables are in the wall - they don't count as being in the canteen. So the serving table exists for cooks, but not for the canteen. I tried this without prisoners, just with cooks, but I think that because canteen don't detect serving tables, inmates won't be taking food from there.
There is a workaround - to make serving table to be 2 squares width, not 1 - but that would require changing the texture too.
And the last thing - not matter how bad I want to separate kitchen from canteen - there are still dirty trays and the cooks would need to take them. So *sigh* I guess I'm back to square one, that being - kitchen next to canteen with a guarded door between.

PS Haven't taken a screenshot since the whole idea failed, but the serving table was placed inside the wall, or, rather, it was placed over the wall


Well, I would suggest giving it a shot. If the cooks are placing the food in the tables and they're not in the kitchen, I'd suppose there would be a chance the prisoners would take them from the tables.

Another idea is to make your storage room "staff only" to prevent the prisoners from making a break for it lmao This is, of course, going back to the option of tearing down the wall altogether.
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby ShaTiK » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:56 pm

HeroFV wrote:Well, I would suggest giving it a shot. If the cooks are placing the food in the tables and they're not in the kitchen, I'd suppose there would be a chance the prisoners would take them from the tables.

Another idea is to make your storage room "staff only" to prevent the prisoners from making a break for it lmao This is, of course, going back to the option of tearing down the wall altogether.


See - I can't make a canteen without serving tables, so there will be like 3 tables - 2 in the wall and 1 somewhere else in the canteen. But cooks will try to place food on every serving table - so they will go the canteen and thus will compromise the hole idea.

As to breaking the wall - well, it would be easier just to place a door between kitchen and canteen and a guard to the canteen. In the end eat time is only twice a day, so it is not such a big deal
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HeroFV
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby HeroFV » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:14 pm

ShaTiK wrote:
HeroFV wrote:Well, I would suggest giving it a shot. If the cooks are placing the food in the tables and they're not in the kitchen, I'd suppose there would be a chance the prisoners would take them from the tables.

Another idea is to make your storage room "staff only" to prevent the prisoners from making a break for it lmao This is, of course, going back to the option of tearing down the wall altogether.


See - I can't make a canteen without serving tables, so there will be like 3 tables - 2 in the wall and 1 somewhere else in the canteen. But cooks will try to place food on every serving table - so they will go the canteen and thus will compromise the hole idea.

As to breaking the wall - well, it would be easier just to place a door between kitchen and canteen and a guard to the canteen. In the end eat time is only twice a day, so it is not such a big deal


Ah, I see your point now.

Well you could still set your kitchen to staff only to prevent stationing a guard... That is, if I'm understanding your reasoning correctly :P
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Re: Serving table question/bug

Postby ShaTiK » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:36 pm

HeroFV wrote:Well you could still set your kitchen to staff only to prevent stationing a guard... That is, if I'm understanding your reasoning correctly :P


Yes and no. Yes - cause setting kitchen to staff only should prevent inmates from going there. No - cause if they will see an opening, say, door from the canteen to the kitchen and door from the kitchen to the garbage area - they could try and make a run. And I'm not talking about 1 prisoner - a group of 5-8 could try and a few could actually succeed.
The hole other question is why they so desperately try to run every time they see an opportunity: it is not like, if a prison located in a middle of nowhere, escapee have many places to run at any time. An escape should be prepared.. But that is the hole different story and this thread could be closed since I got all the answers I needed.

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