Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

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nini
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby nini » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:41 am

I wouldn't give the writer that much credence, he's a far-left issue wonk and knowing a few far-left issue wonks in my time they're usually open minded as long as you agree with exactly what they're saying but just don't think differently to them, they'll beat you into the ground with rhetoric. His games aren't to my taste either because it's just him sniffing his own farts and asking others to do the same, he's also the really radicalised sort you know who can politicise anything and most likely does making him a completely tiresome bore to be around as his head long since disappeared up his own rear. I don't think he's wrong, just that it's all a bit like using a jackhammer to drive home a thumbtack, subtlety is not something this guy learned.

Character assassination aside, he asks questions which I think the IV guys do want to ask and listening to their response does help with the notion they're doing it but it's not overt and at least isn't trying to force a personal viewpoint as every one of Pedercinni's "games" try to do. From what I'm seeing, it wasn't a piece that trashes the game but seems to want it to be louder with the message Pedercinni wanted to hear so the article didn't boil down to much more than "hey, this game touches on subjects I care about, please be more aggressive with these points devs!" Basically, reality is a key aspect of this game of course but to my mind, the game and the enjoyability of that comes first and not the realities this jackass wants the game to right or make the player acutely aware of.
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby HeroFV » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:40 pm

nini wrote:I wouldn't give the writer that much credence, he's a far-left issue wonk and knowing a few far-left issue wonks in my time they're usually open minded as long as you agree with exactly what they're saying but just don't think differently to them, they'll beat you into the ground with rhetoric. His games aren't to my taste either because it's just him sniffing his own farts and asking others to do the same, he's also the really radicalised sort you know who can politicise anything and most likely does making him a completely tiresome bore to be around as his head long since disappeared up his own rear. I don't think he's wrong, just that it's all a bit like using a jackhammer to drive home a thumbtack, subtlety is not something this guy learned.

Character assassination aside, he asks questions which I think the IV guys do want to ask and listening to their response does help with the notion they're doing it but it's not overt and at least isn't trying to force a personal viewpoint as every one of Pedercinni's "games" try to do. From what I'm seeing, it wasn't a piece that trashes the game but seems to want it to be louder with the message Pedercinni wanted to hear so the article didn't boil down to much more than "hey, this game touches on subjects I care about, please be more aggressive with these points devs!" Basically, reality is a key aspect of this game of course but to my mind, the game and the enjoyability of that comes first and not the realities this jackass wants the game to right or make the player acutely aware of.


LMFAO

Well, you are quite colorful, aren't you :P
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby xander » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:46 pm

knoest26 wrote:I wouldn't call it attacking, more like judging.

He's a critic. That's his job.

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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby Citizen » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:10 pm

I agree, he is a jackass who smells his own farts.
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby lugaru » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:23 pm

I'm way late to this party but I really respect Kotaku for doing a long ass article about it. I too am really intersted in prison reform... but I also have been on the forum long enough that I know the game is not a critique on the american penal system in any specific way. I'll listen to their response later but I'm sure it is something along those lines.

Still I wish every online criticism was this extensive and researched, regardless of it is wrong or right. I get so tired of one line dismissives that I see all the time: "X Box One? More like X Box LAME".
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby HeroFV » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:11 am

xander wrote:
knoest26 wrote:I wouldn't call it attacking, more like judging.

He's a critic. That's his job.

xander


Link me to where it says a critic's job is to judge a piece of work strictly by their own opinions and standards, regardless of what the medium was intended for, in an unfinished piece of work, please.

That's like critiquing a piece of steak badly before it's off the grill simply because it isn't a vegetarian dish. He is obviously holding the game to the standards of his own, not by the standards of video games.

Maybe I am in the wrong here, however. I did make the assumption that kotaku was a review site for games and such. If it is actually a site about social issues simply reviewing a video game then it makes more sense as to why he approaches it like that. Then again, that would make about as much sense as making a review for individual war games, when you're against war in general!
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby xander » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:33 am

HeroFV wrote:Link me to where it says a critic's job is to judge a piece of work strictly by their own opinions and standards...

Since when are critics supposed to be unbiased? The very best critics are the ones have clear biases. The best way to read reviews is with an understanding of what the reviewers biases are, and how their judgments align with your own. One of my favorite movie reviewers works for the local NPR station. I almost never agree with her---generally, when she dislikes a movie, that is a pretty good indication that I will like it---but I know what her biases are, and I know how to listen to her reviews and know what I am going to be in for.

HeroFV wrote:...regardless of what the medium was intended for...

How is the reviewer failing to take into account "what the medium was intended for?" What, exactly, the the medium under consideration? What, exactly, is it intended for?

HeroFV wrote:...in an unfinished piece of work, please.

Introversion opened themselves up for critical analysis by publishing their game, unfinished or not.

HeroFV wrote:That's like critiquing a piece of steak badly before it's off the grill simply because it isn't a vegetarian dish. He is obviously holding the game to the standards of his own, not by the standards of video games.

This is a terrible analogy. First off, there are reasons to assume that Prison Architect might have something offer for someone who is interested in the sociology and politics of the penal system, whereas a vegetarian would have no interest in a steak in the first place. A vegetarian would be an idiot to review a steak (and a person looking for a good place to buy a steak would be an idiot to consider the review of a vegetarian---see the point about knowing your reviewer's biases, above).

Second, you seem really hung up on the idea that Prison Architect is not finished. We all know it isn't finished, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be judged and criticized based on what is finished so far. The steak analogy doesn't really work, largely because eating raw beef can be dangerous (though one could certainly criticize the marinade or cut of meat before the steak is done, so maybe the analogy can be salvaged in that respect).

Finally, what are the objective standards of video game criticism? All critics have their own standards and use those standards to judge works. Some critics simply want to be entertained, others want to see certain commentary on politics and society.

Honestly, the substance of your objections seems to be "This critic disagrees with me! Where does he get off writing a review!?"

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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby muahaa_the_french » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:22 am

xander's doing a lovely job.

For what it's worth, I'm glad to see the developers are taking the critique more seriously and have responded to it in-depth:

http://kotaku.com/prison-architect-crea ... 1508504242

To be honest, it seems like most of the problems you guys have with the original article is that it comes from a different perspective than your own, and very little of it actually has to do with any of the actual improvements he suggested to gameplay ...
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby nini » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:32 pm

muahaa_the_french wrote:To be honest, it seems like most of the problems you guys have with the original article is that it comes from a different perspective than your own, and very little of it actually has to do with any of the actual improvements he suggested to gameplay ...

I didn't care for his perspective as I made fairly clear, I don't disagree with what he wanted but then I felt those things would be implemented from previous alpha release videos where they mention their intents for the game's direction.
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby Citizen » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:48 pm

You retards still here?

This thread is so early January. Move on already. Arguing with the Xander is pointless. He is immune to reason. He will post and post and post until you stop and walk away thinking he won something. His favorite movie critic is on NPR, which in terms of political open-mindedness means that he basically walks around wearing a heavy coat during the summer months counting backwards from 10 in Arabic.

Face it, we can't cure crazy and we can't link common sense. Mute him and MoveOn.
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Re: Interesting article on Kotaku about Prison Architect

Postby HeroFV » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:18 pm

I'm seriously starting to think Xander wrote the article!

You seem to slice up what people say and address things in slices instead of seeing the whole picture.

The point is that he criticizes it as if things won't be changed or added.

I didn't say he was supposed to be unbiased. I'm saying that he is judging a piece of entertainment, meant to reflect the LORE of prisons, as if it is supposed to be a fact based, politically correct, learning experience. That's the analogy I mean. He is not judging the game as a GAME (or steak lmao). At some point, it's you that is taking this out of context and making people seem worse than they are. We're simply stating that he isn't judging the game fairly or in the appropriate context. Not all of us are trying to flame the guy for saying bad things about a game. Simply pointing out that he is being harsh and premature. In a way, one or the other is fine. Both is too much. What I mean is if the game is finished, and he's being harsh, it makes sense, because it's most likely the game won't change. On the other hand, if it's unfinished, then he should make statements like "They should add this..." or "This is something that needs to be addressed". I am clearly not the only one that gets the impression that he is saying things and making opinions on things as if they won't be changed.

Again, you are taking me the wrong way. My opinion, not objection, is that he wrote an article on a game intended for fun, based on lore and tried to point to real life differences. It goes back to the analogy. He is a professor that makes a certain type of learning game, based on facts and social issues (vegetarian) and wrote a review on a game meant to be fun, based on lore and myth (steak). Don't get me wrong, IDC what he does. He's free to write all the articles he wants too. He can sit in his basement and eat Cheetos for all I care. I'm just saying that he isn't judging the game for what it was intended. He spend more time posting prison and social facts than he did talking about the actual GAME.

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