Tunnels on Alpha 16

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Bohlaa
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Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby Bohlaa » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:03 pm

I have a prison with 200+ max sec prisoners on day 70. I make a full shake down every two or three days, and i never found a tunnel. Now is my question, can't prisoners in alpha 16 build tunnels or can't my Guards find them?
In my old Alpha15-max sec prison i found a tunnel in nearly every shake down.
luto
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby luto » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:01 pm

I'm also on Alpha 16 and have a max sec prison.. tunneling "works" for me, though.
Dr_Olaf
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby Dr_Olaf » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:03 pm

I heard the devs announce somewhere (in the changelog?) that prisoners will only tunnel when they are intelligent enough (hidden feat) and the prison is dangerous (thus them wanting to leave more badly). So either, all your prisoners are very dumb, or your prison is running very smoothly.
I also notice much more tunneling at times where I intentionally destabilize my prisons.
Bohlaa
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby Bohlaa » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:38 pm

Dr_Olaf wrote:I heard the devs announce somewhere (in the changelog?) that prisoners will only tunnel when they are intelligent enough (hidden feat) and the prison is dangerous (thus them wanting to leave more badly). So either, all your prisoners are very dumb, or your prison is running very smoothly.
I also notice much more tunneling at times where I intentionally destabilize my prisons.


Ok, nice to know. Each prisoner has to pass at least two metal detectors, when they want to go to their cells. And if something illegal is found with them, also their cell will be searched.
Can it be true that they need at least a spoon or something similar before they start tunneling? Because they can't even get a spoon into their cells :)
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby Osvald666 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:57 am

Well i think theres "problem" with balance atm. But as someone already wrote. You have no tunnels thx to low danger prison.

But the main diference is that if you have the "search cell after detector found a spoon" they will never get to dig a tunnel at all in 99%
RGeezy911
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby RGeezy911 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:30 am

Tunneling was extremely nerfed and is very difficult to find with minimum or moderate risk prisoners. However, there is a very slight increase with maximum risk prisoners. From what I remember, your prison needs to have a high enough danger level to merit fear in prisoners who don't want to get involved in a potential fight and / or riot. Secondly, a prisoner needs to have the "clever" trait in order to use tools as a method of escape. Finally, the prisoner who wants to escape needs a tool to dig a tunnel with it.

This makes tunneling as realistic as it can be, but I wouldn't disagree with some very minor tweaking to the system. A suggestion I'll make would be that only clever prisoners should be stealing tools in high quantities. This means non-clever prisoners should rarely steal tools.

Additionally, the metal detectors go inactive for 3 seconds after it flags a prisoner. Therefore, there is a chance that a tool can be stolen and stashed in a cell somewhere. Do a shakedown every three or so days, you may be surprised at how many metallic items were hidden in cells.
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HeroFV
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby HeroFV » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:59 pm

I too have gotten into the habit of placing multiple detectors along paths. for example, in a 4-way crossing there are detectors on both sides of the hallway. There are also detectors at every point I can find to place them. I also shake-down at least every other day.

They still get stuff through somehow. I also notice that the most serious threats come from outside the prison! Guns, Keys, Piano Wire (YES, piano wire lmao), etc.

I agree that it would make sense to nerf the contraband stealing. At least slightly. Though, I agree that they nerfed the tunnels too much lmao. I have a 200+ Prison with over half the prisoners being max sec and I haven't even SEEN a tunnel.
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby knoest26 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:17 pm

It's about the tools, if prisoners can't take tools to their cells, they won't dig.
BugPowderDust
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby BugPowderDust » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:37 pm

I hope they introduce searching the visitors, they're little buggers for bringing stuff in!!
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xander
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby xander » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:04 pm

BugPowderDust wrote:I hope they introduce searching the visitors, they're little buggers for bringing stuff in!!

In addition, it would be nice if the visitors actually brought stuff in. Right now, any prisoner who is in the visitation area has a random chance of leaving with contraband. They don't get it from the visitors, but from the environment.

xander
BugPowderDust
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby BugPowderDust » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:12 pm

xander wrote:In addition, it would be nice if the visitors actually brought stuff in. Right now, any prisoner who is in the visitation area has a random chance of leaving with contraband. They don't get it from the visitors, but from the environment.

xander


Haha, didn't realise that!! I won't hate the visitors anymore, just the room :)
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby Bohlaa » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:28 pm

BugPowderDust wrote:
xander wrote:In addition, it would be nice if the visitors actually brought stuff in. Right now, any prisoner who is in the visitation area has a random chance of leaving with contraband. They don't get it from the visitors, but from the environment.

xander


Haha, didn't realise that!! I won't hate the visitors anymore, just the room :)


Thats nice to know. I always put my visitor room as near as possible to the entrance, because i thought the visitors can spread the contraband, when they walked through my prison :D
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby brumster » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:52 pm

Agreed with all of the above, I had a tunnel problem in my early stages of Alpha 16. I then spotted a pattern, of course, and when I discovered a tool on a prisoner I manually searched his cell and found the tunnel. I then put 2 and 2 together, ie. tools = tunnels. Now I've got contraband and metal detectors in my later stages of the prison, anything like a spoon triggers an automatic cell search and more often than not finds a tunnel. Likewise any attempt to escape meets with severe punishment (solitary) so I am hoping my prisoners are disuaded from escape attemps and just get on with it.

I also metal detect in/out of the canteen and workshop as I figured these are the worst places to source the stuff from. Likewise a metal detector on my main public entrance so anything brought in externally. Touch wood, no tunnel problems for quite some time now.
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby LopsidedJohnson » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:47 pm

I manually search prisoners as soon as they get off the trucks. No incoming contraband. Multiple metal detectors on all routes to the cells catch 99% of the canteen/workshop contraband and a shakedown every third day or so kills the rest. I also keep my prisoner's needs met completely with the exception of the morning shower spike and even then damage/fighting is rare. Guards AND dogs patrol into each individual cell.

With this strategy, I haven't seen a tunnel in my prison. Ever.
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Re: Tunnels on Alpha 16

Postby Meeeps » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:16 pm

I have no tunnels in Alpha 16 anymore, but I have by far not a low dangerous prison, also no secure zone around the prison, but with 300 max security prisoners and 100 of the other 2, still no tunnels.they would need to dig 3 tiles to get free.

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