Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

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thestalkinghead
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Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby thestalkinghead » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:33 pm

tree farm

Image

so i made a tree farm and from my experience of using it as an industry i have discovered a few issues that really need fixing before this can be a valid way of making money:

1) the biggest and most irritating issue is tree stumps, to remove them i have to manually click on each stump seperatly and select dump, this really needs a tool (or maybe new trees could be planted on top of stumps), and also they take far too long to remove

2) Gardeners are far too slow when dragging the box with a tree in it, perhaps they should drag a box of saplings (similar to box of pipes) instead so they can plant multiple trees at a time (this would also fix the problem of the storeroom being full of boxes of trees)

3) fully grown trees can be hard to spot, for two reasons, first reason one: the art for the growth stages of trees we can plant are very similar with only a few pixels of size difference between between fully grown and half grown, reason two: there are some trees that when fully grown are bigger than other fully grown ones so gauging which ones are fully grown can only really be done by memory, perhaps some information about the status of growth of the tree when you click on it would solve this problem, or maybe a very distinct look for a fully grown tree eg. pine cones appearing

4) cost, £100 was acceptable for the delivery of a fully grown tree but it is far to expensive for a sapling/seed, lowering the cost would be good, or perhaps you could get cuttings or seeds from a chopped down tree.

5) micromanagement, this is last because it was stated in the update video that tree farms would eventually become more automated, but for the time being, manually designating where to plant a tree, manually selecting fully grown trees to chop down and manually removing each tree stump takes far to long and gets extremely tedious after a few days
Last edited by thestalkinghead on Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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_alphaBeta_
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby _alphaBeta_ » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:45 pm

This industry has a lot of potential, and I agree with all your points. Regarding the stumps, they do seem to disappear by themselves eventually. Either that or my gardener has been taking care of them when I wasn't looking. As a workaround, you could simply rotate plots of land giving the stumps time to "decompose" similar to leaving a field of crops fallow for a season.

The "sell object" command is also a welcomed change since I can build that last cell without waiting until midnight for funds to roll in.
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby thestalkinghead » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:55 pm

_alphaBeta_ wrote:This industry has a lot of potential, and I agree with all your points. Regarding the stumps, they do seem to disappear by themselves eventually. Either that or my gardener has been taking care of them when I wasn't looking. As a workaround, you could simply rotate plots of land giving the stumps time to "decompose" similar to leaving a field of crops fallow for a season.

The "sell object" command is also a welcomed change since I can build that last cell without waiting until midnight for funds to roll in.



i never noticed a stump "decomposing" maybe it takes a few days?? i was doing a rotation of tree farms ( from the screenshot i was doing 5 rows at a time) but because the gardeners take so long to plant the trees i had to remove the stumps so i could designate trees to be planted without wasting time, if i waited a few days i would probably need triple the space i was already using and that wasn't even keeping up with demand.

yeah i do like the "sell object" command it can be extremely useful to finish small things off without waiting a whole day
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_alphaBeta_
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby _alphaBeta_ » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:04 pm

thestalkinghead wrote:i never noticed a stump "decomposing" maybe it takes a few days??

I wasn't paying close enough attention, but I'm fairly confident that they were just gone after a day or two. I don't remember specifically dumping them, but I do have a gardener running around outside.

Either way, I agree there eventually there needs to be a mechanism for doing this. Ideally both workmen and prisoners should be able to remove stumps, and should do so nearly automatically. Alternative would be to at least have a specific command that the player can drag over all their stumps as you suggest.

Trees aren't the only object that needs to come in a box similar to electrical cable and pipes. Anyone who's built a sizable shower should know the pains of workmen transporting one showerhead at a time. Old suggestion link.
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby thestalkinghead » Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:12 pm

_alphaBeta_ wrote:
thestalkinghead wrote:
Trees aren't the only object that needs to come in a box similar to electrical cable and pipes. Anyone who's built a sizable shower should know the pains of workmen transporting one showerhead at a time. Old suggestion link.


yeah that is an issue, but at least you don't have to build a new shower every day :lol:
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby memitim » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:07 pm

Tree stumps go away after a day or two.

As for making it faster to farm trees, I don't know. I would like to automate the process by designating tree zones and ordering stock to fill them and gardeners to manage them. However, right now by cloning a patch of trees manually a few times per day I am raking in so much money that finances are no longer a concern. Basically the strategy for any new prisons going forward is to:

1. Disassemble all trees on the map and sell the logs to build stockpile of cash
2. Build up population to 30 or so to have workers for kitchen and workshop
3. Rush Prison Labour
4. Workshop full of saws
5. Rush Gardeners
6. Never worry about money again

I think that once automation is in that trees should take longer to grow, and possibly fluctuate in grow rates and even success. If weather and seasons become factors, have those affect the odds of saplings surviving the first couple days. The gardeners can work to maintain them, but only if they aren't busy planting trees elsewhere.

I definitely want more complexity to industry but making it faster and easier to get logs is probably not a good move since tree planting is already the "I WIN" button of the game. If that can be rapidly automated, you may as well be playing a zero cost Sandbox mode.
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby b0rk » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:51 am

On the basis that workshops were nerf'd for excess profitability trees really need the same balance wise once a functional wood industry exists.

Tree's should IMHO come in via delivery trucks which even at current rates of buy at 100 and sell at 500 would allow a daily profit of 345,600 which was the max profit possible with workshops pre-nerf...
846 trees delivered per day = 6 trees per truck x 24 hours x 6 tucks per hour.

Increasing the number of trees per box would only make the profits even more excessive at say 6 trees per box 2,073,600 per day would be possible.

I think two types of tree are needed a managed farmed tree which can only be planted by gardeners or inmates in tree farms and a decorative tree that only gardeners or workmen can place. This second tree should realise little profit in cutting up for logs. The first should not be player placeable at all.

Efficiency wise it appears trees take 1 day to reach full growth and 1 day for the stump to disappear after cutting thus working on the basis of a 3 day cycle one 240 square farm could realise $10,666 profit per day. 20 prisoners should be able to easily cut 80 trees and plant 80 trees per day based on 9 working hours, but we'll see how that turns out once enabled.
The spare saw time from a 240 square workshop should also be able to process all the wood generated in a day from a farm of the same size.

Interestingly using gardeners to do this looks more profitable than inmates based a one inmate costing $37.42 per day
$12 per day per inmate for food
1 chef per 7 inmates @100ea = $14
1 guard per 10 inmates @100ea = $10
1 workman per 10 chefs @100ea = $10 / 7 = $1.42

Gardeners are $100 per day and can work 23 hours per day between rests, allowing for a 100m walk to storage 8 trees can per planted per gardener per day or 1 tree per 2.875 hours or $12.5 per tree yielding $3,200 per day once up and running.

A inmate doing the same on a 9 hour working day will manage 3 trees or $12.47 per tree and yield $1,200 per day.

This currently makes wood free money once you've got a functioning license plate industry.
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby thestalkinghead » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:03 am

that is some interesting calculations you have done there @b0rk, it puts it in perspective, maybe i will just triple the size of my tree farm (one for stumps one for growing and one for harvesting) and hire more gardeners, i honestly wouldn't mind it being nerfed slightly if it was more automated
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby planettop92 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:55 pm

I noticed we get different trees when we plant them on grass or sand. does anyone know if these affect the industry in any way or are they just purely for aesthetics?
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Re: Wood Farms and TREE STUMPS!!!!

Postby Lenn » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:15 pm

planettop92 wrote:I noticed we get different trees when we plant them on grass or sand. does anyone know if these affect the industry in any way or are they just purely for aesthetics?


I think aesthetics, I haven't found any consequences whatsover.

I totally agree with thestalkinghead by the way, I found the exact same issues when playing the new alpha.

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