Pizza trucks

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henke37
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Pizza trucks

Postby henke37 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:27 am

Because laundry isn't the only need that should be possible to outsource.
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby xander » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:58 pm

In the context of laundry contracts, this is, perhaps, an idea worth discussing, but I think that I don't like it. There are a couple of reasons:
  • The clothing need is a need that cannot (currently) be satisfied without investing in research. The food need is not, as it is possible to build a kitchen, hire a cook, and install a sink, cooker, and fridge right from the beginning. Thus in terms of satisfying prisoner needs, I don't see the need for prepared food deliveries.
  • I am not sure how the mechanic would work or how it would balance against other mechanics. When the food is delivered, someone has to pick it up and put it on the serving tables. This either requires cooks, or additional workmen. Plus food deliveries are a recurring cost, hence it is pretty quickly cheaper to simply buy the kitchen appliances. There doesn't seem to be any monetary saving. There is, perhaps, some space saved space in the prison, but I am not sure that space is at such a premium that we need to save it. Why would the player *choose* food deliveries over a kitchen? What is the incentive?
  • While I don't generally object on the grounds of realism, there is something about deliveries of prepared food that just strikes me as wrong for a prison. Perhaps I am wrong, but my understanding is that Prison Architect is largely inspired by prison *movies*, and I cannot think of a single example of a film where prepared food is delivered to the prison. This is, as I have pointed out to others in the past, a pretty weak argument, so if a gameplay or aesthetic argument can be made in favor of pizza deliveries, I am all for it, but I don't see that happening.
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby killerx243 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:05 pm

What if it also satisfies recreation and can be used to calm the mood of the prison? Inmates on the verge of a riot? Feed them some pizza!
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby thekillergreece » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:26 pm

There is no prison in earth that give pizza to prisoners...Only disgusting foods..
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby xander » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:41 pm

thekillergreece wrote:There is no prison in earth that give pizza to prisoners...Only disgusting foods..

You might want to look at this Forbes article. Rich white-collar prisoners with expensive lawyers are often quite well treated.

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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby MAdMaN » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:16 pm

killerx243 wrote:What if it also satisfies recreation?

Why would food satisfy a need for recreation?
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby _alphaBeta_ » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:25 pm

MAdMaN wrote:
killerx243 wrote:What if it also satisfies recreation?

Why would food satisfy a need for recreation?

Food fight? :lol:

xander wrote:
  • The clothing need is a need that cannot (currently) be satisfied without investing in research. The food need is not, as it is possible to build a kitchen, hire a cook, and install a sink, cooker, and fridge right from the beginning. Thus in terms of satisfying prisoner needs, I don't see the need for prepared food deliveries.
  • I am not sure how the mechanic would work or how it would balance against other mechanics. When the food is delivered, someone has to pick it up and put it on the serving tables. This either requires cooks, or additional workmen. Plus food deliveries are a recurring cost, hence it is pretty quickly cheaper to simply buy the kitchen appliances. There doesn't seem to be any monetary saving. There is, perhaps, some space saved space in the prison, but I am not sure that space is at such a premium that we need to save it. Why would the player *choose* food deliveries over a kitchen? What is the incentive?

Well similar to my posts on the External Laundry thread, I see outsourcing like this beneficial for the early game; perhaps enough to feed the first dozen prisoners for a day or two while you get your kitchen rolling. I also think it work be nice to have for supplemental and temporary reasons, perhaps while you're expanding a kitchen etc.

I suppose players could use these services indefinitely, but I believe there should be consequences for going that route in order to have the player make choices and compromises given the lack of monetary efficiency outsourcing brings. Another option on the last point is to limit the services' capacity. You can only bring in x meals. This fits both the starter prison and temporary supplementation use cases, and forces players away from using them forever. That last statement is a bit hypocritical for me since I believe simulators should be more open with options etc., but I can stomach these features being limited.
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby xander » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:24 pm

_alphaBeta_ wrote:I also think it work be nice to have for supplemental and temporary reasons, perhaps while you're expanding a kitchen etc.

I hadn't actually thought about this---it is an interesting way to recover from the mistake of, for instance, removing a power cable to the kitchen. As the game stands right now, if you accidentally cut power to the kitchen, no one gets fed. If the job queue is backed up, it can take a long time to get power back, which requires either hiring more workers to clear the queue faster (expensive), canceling a bunch of jobs (annoying as all hell), or suffering the riots (really annoying). The idea that prepared food delivery might allow a player to recover from such a mistake is intriguing. I am still against it, as I still don't think that it adds terribly much to the game and it strikes me as rather unrealistic, but you definitely bring up a point in its favor.

However, I am going to have to disagree vociferously about the early game. The major difference between laundry and food is that it is possible to satisfy the food need immediately, while the clothing need cannot be satisfied without unlocking several levels of tech. In fact, it may even be the case that clothing is the only need that cannot be satisfied right out of the gate (unless you count medical care, but that strikes me as a different kind of need). I feel that an intelligent player, with some care, should be able to run a successful prison without touching the tech tree. It shouldn't be easy, but it should be possible. The lack of an option for laundry from day one prevents that from being possible, hence I am of the opinion that there is a problem with the laundry system. No such problem exists for food.

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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby thekillergreece » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:07 pm

xander wrote:
thekillergreece wrote:There is no prison in earth that give pizza to prisoners...Only disgusting foods..

You might want to look at this Forbes article. Rich white-collar prisoners with expensive lawyers are often quite well treated.

xander


Like I said, there is no prison that deliver pizza to prisoners..Neither that fake article mentioning about pizza to prisoners..
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby xander » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:27 pm

thekillergreece wrote:Like I said, there is no prison that deliver pizza to prisoners..Neither that fake article mentioning about pizza to prisoners..

I was responding to the "disgusting foods" portion of your post, not the pizza portion.

Anther example of good food (and food deliveries) in prison (actually, this looks more like jail than a prison, but the distinction is perhaps not relevant in the current context): Kobe's Nagata Precinct.

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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby Brnthay » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:23 pm

For supermax prisons (inmate does not leave his cell for 22-23 hours a day), food delivery, and laundry delivery would mean that you could devote more space to cells/cell blocks. Right now the only way to make money is to have a workshop, making supermax prisons impossible. Having a delivery system to the prison, and then a guard or other staff member take it to the cell, would facilitate this design.
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Re: Pizza trucks

Postby neale1993 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:44 pm

xander wrote:
_alphaBeta_ wrote:I also think it work be nice to have for supplemental and temporary reasons, perhaps while you're expanding a kitchen etc.

I hadn't actually thought about this---it is an interesting way to recover from the mistake of, for instance, removing a power cable to the kitchen. As the game stands right now, if you accidentally cut power to the kitchen, no one gets fed. If the job queue is backed up, it can take a long time to get power back, which requires either hiring more workers to clear the queue faster (expensive), canceling a bunch of jobs (annoying as all hell), or suffering the riots (really annoying). The idea that prepared food delivery might allow a player to recover from such a mistake is intriguing. I am still against it, as I still don't think that it adds terribly much to the game and it strikes me as rather unrealistic, but you definitely bring up a point in its favor.

However, I am going to have to disagree vociferously about the early game. The major difference between laundry and food is that it is possible to satisfy the food need immediately, while the clothing need cannot be satisfied without unlocking several levels of tech. In fact, it may even be the case that clothing is the only need that cannot be satisfied right out of the gate (unless you count medical care, but that strikes me as a different kind of need). I feel that an intelligent player, with some care, should be able to run a successful prison without touching the tech tree. It shouldn't be easy, but it should be possible. The lack of an option for laundry from day one prevents that from being possible, hence I am of the opinion that there is a problem with the laundry system. No such problem exists for food.

xander


As it stands, I think the delivery of prepared food should be in the tech tree. This way, it wont affect the early game too much because you will need the money and time in order to unlock it. It should also have some negative affect in the short - medium term. Whether it just be financial or behavioural problems from the inmates. It could just be that it doesn't satisfy hunger as much as food cooked onsite would. If events like natural disasters, or as you point out electrical issues arise, then a delivery of food could be the only way in which you can tame the prisoners or prevent mass riots. As said their would be a cost, so it would hopefully be a last resort kind of deal.

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