[Suggestion] Get rid of Yard needing to be secured by a door

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HerrJoebob
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Postby HerrJoebob » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:22 pm

Errorblankfield wrote:I just wanted to offer someone else a quick-fix... thanks for dragging it out into some big ordeal.


If this is true, your communication skills are incredibly poor - nobody has any clue what you are talking about. Also, if you tot up the amount of time you've spent writing posts and compare it to how long it takes to fire up the game and take some screenshots you'll see why this is so silly of you.

But actually I think after the first couple replies you decided to just troll us anyway. :)
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Postby Errorblankfield » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:47 pm

Errorblankfield wrote:Guys, this happens all the time and it's really annoying. I've found just building a door on the edge of the yard works wonders in these situations. The door never gets used of course, and it costs money, but it works.

Once you met the requirement, I oft just remove the door without issue, but until you have one ON the yard, it throws a fit.

In extreme cases, I have to fence it off with a door then remove the fence.


Clearly.

And I'm writing these posts in the middle of other stuff so it's not time consuming.

Thanks for the concern though.
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Postby xander » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:31 pm

Errorblankfield wrote:I can't recreate it cause I don't know why it happens.

At different times, you have stated that it always happens when you perform a certain sequence of actions, and now you are claiming that it does not always happen when you perform some sequence of actions. I am confused.

Errorblankfield wrote:It's not my job to fix it so I don't feel like poking around for an hour to get it to happen again.

Either there is a bug that needs fixing, or there is a user error. If it is a bug, then the only way it will ever get fixed is if people who are experiencing it can explain when it happens. If the developers don't know what exactly is going wrong, how do you expect them to ever find the problem? Or are you the kind of person that expects a physician to magically make a diagnosis without you providing a list of the symptoms that you are experiencing?

Errorblankfield wrote:Either way, I'm done trouble shooting for someone else.

Given that you never did any trouble shooting in the first place...

Errorblankfield wrote:I just wanted to offer someone else a quick-fix... thanks for dragging it out into some big ordeal.

See, the thing is that this game is in alpha. A "quick-fix" is not what the developers (or most of the other posters) are looking for. We are looking for a reproducible error that might be caused by a bug in the game. When and if such an error is found, it is possible for the developers to implement a *permanent* fix, rather than a hacky work-around.

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Postby Errorblankfield » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:41 pm

Get over it?

I gave a quick-fix to a problem.
I'm not here to explain why it happened (though I think I did a decent job of guessing).

And I thought it occurred all the time, cause it never worked for me before. I've since realized it actually works sometimes.

Sue me.
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Postby iScripters » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:26 am

I don't think Errorblankfield gave a bad description to be honest. I hope I got it right and save a lot of discussion on this, but this is what I got from his post:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

If this is not what Errorblankfield meant, sorry for this useless post.
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Postby Errorblankfield » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:40 am

Normally the hole in the middle is much larger and the yard only makes a fraction of it... but yea. That's how it works.

And as mentioned, it works in the simple cases (as pictured).
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:55 am

Errorblankfield wrote:Normally the hole in the middle is much larger and the yard only makes a fraction of it... but yea. That's how it works.

And as mentioned, it works in the simple cases (as pictured).

Okay, so my attempt at making the donut building earlier this afternoon seems to have been correct. I didn't bother posting any pics because I wasn't getting your specific bug. There was no need of a door to make the yard acceptable, to then have to remove the door to keep it that way. In fact, enclosing the entire yard with foundation just turned the red flag off immediately after the building was built without any door on that inner wall at all.

So, perhaps the main issue is that if a yard is fully enclosed, whether it has a door or not, it may trigger as acceptable.. even if there's no way for prisoners to get into it.

Which is actually pretty funny. This makes me want to design a silly evil prison with a fully enclosed yard with only windows peering in, but no doors. "See all that lush green grass out there? That's what you *could* have had if you hadn't gotten yourself stuck in here."

*Kefka laugh* :twisted:
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Postby paktsardines » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:36 am

perhaps the main issue is that if a yard is fully enclosed, whether it has a door or not, it may trigger as acceptable..

I think the issue is that, despite reading the posts, examining the screenshots and replicating the situation in game, I still have no freakin' idea what the issue is.

Foundations need doors, this is nothing new. A foundation will not complete until it has a door. Building four joined foundations around a central square will not complete without placing a door. This is the intended behaviour. Once a door is placed, the foundations complete and the yard is secure.

I'm sure, between the lot of us, we have the answers that Errorblankfield is after. Now all we need is a question.
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Postby Xoligy » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:00 am

Im surprised this thread has gone on for three pages and without the op posting again in fact he's a one post wonder! lol

But from his short description i got the feeling that he didnt like the fact the game says you require a door for the yard and has maybe mis-understood that the door could be other side of the map as long as the yard was "enclosed" within the prison perimeter so prisoners could not escape.

please note ive not read anything in the thread, just amazed its gone on for so long without him re-explaining.
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Postby VoiD88 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:11 am

Spectre Incarnate wrote:Which is actually pretty funny. This makes me want to design a silly evil prison with a fully enclosed yard with only windows peering in, but no doors. "See all that lush green grass out there? That's what you *could* have had if you hadn't gotten yourself stuck in here."

*Kefka laugh* :twisted:

I lol'ed so hard at this xD Had almost forgotten about FF6 and his stupid laughter.
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Postby Errorblankfield » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:28 pm

paktsardines wrote:I'm sure, between the lot of us, we have the answers that Errorblankfield is after. Now all we need is a question.


Wait... I requested answers?

I though answers where being demanded of me (more or less at gun point).
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Postby Ric666 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:16 pm

Well I'm glad that got cleared up.....lol!! So much tension on these forums sometimes :P

Safe to say, there's no need to remove the need for a yard being behind a door as it should always be within your prison area which should always have a perimeter fence & main entrance. :D

(although someone will probably disagree with that)
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:41 pm

paktsardines wrote:
perhaps the main issue is that if a yard is fully enclosed, whether it has a door or not, it may trigger as acceptable..

Foundations need doors, this is nothing new. A foundation will not complete until it has a door. Building four joined foundations around a central square will not complete without placing a door. This is the intended behaviour. Once a door is placed, the foundations complete and the yard is secure.

Let me try to explain.

Yes, I put a door on the outer wall of the foundation to finish it, as always. But, what I discovered was that a yard fully enclosed by the donut shaped foundation (which means the foundation has that extra inner wall with the outdoor center) did not need a door on the inner wall for the yard to become acceptable as a fully functioning yard. Yes, that is intended behavior, because the outer wall door would continue to keep it acceptable. But that is still hilarious because the prisoners can't actually get in to use it. :lol:

Now, I may be wrong about this... but what I believe Error was talking about was that he experienced the need for that second inner wall door to make the yard acceptable in the first place, which would make sense cause prisoners can then get into it, right? But then after removing the inner door, the yard continued to stay acceptable because the outer wall door (or some other perimeter door) was good enough to keep it acceptable. He considered this to be a bug (naturally) and felt the yard should have gone back to being unacceptable because you can't get inside it. :lol:

But you bring up an interesting point, pakt... it's possible that Error didn't finish the foundation with the outer wall door first, which would then make the yard need any door at all to make it function, and if he put the inner wall door on first to finalize the foundation, then it would also act as the main door to the yard! Then after that, both he and I experience the same! Prisoners can't get in!

And THAT would mean Error's... error... wasn't actually an error at all, but incredible circumstance!!

Yup, I think I figured it out. And now my head hurts, but man that was bugging my brain for two days!
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Postby paktsardines » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:05 pm

although someone will probably disagree with that


Yep, guess who... ;)

My gripe is that the whole prison 'must be secure', so to have this requirement specifically for the yard and nothing else is odd. That said, I certainly don't think every room should have a 'must be secure' requirement, as the 'secure' requirement is made quite clear as soon as your prisoners escape. ;)

So, I agree with the OP. The secure yard requirement is unnecessary and should be removed (have already done this for the alpha 13 GFC mod).
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Postby Ric666 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:11 pm

There's a surprise ;)

Why you would ever take in prisoners before your prison if secure by some method of fencing is beyond me but each to their own :P

I also think the other reason why the standard rooms don't have this requirement is almost all the others need to be inside which immediately means it's within walls that would have connected to an enclosed perimeter wall of some fashion.

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