[Suggestion] Get rid of Yard needing to be secured by a door

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_alphaBeta_
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Postby _alphaBeta_ » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:34 pm

It's possible that you stumbled onto a particular design that conflicts with the current room requirements. That won't be known until a screenshot or save game is looked at. Please post one if you're able and we can assist you in getting it properly documented as a bug.
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Postby Errorblankfield » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:36 pm

Already fixed it by simply adding a random door (as already mentioned) in my case.

If I run across it again, I'll post a pic.

Thanks for reading what's posted instead of assuming I can't enclose a 5x5 square with a building.
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Postby Ric666 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:34 am

Errorblankfield wrote:Imagine a large building with a hole cut out in the middle (like a doughnut).

Place yard somewhere in the middle of the cut out.

That's it.

>_> If it didn't happen literally every time I go for a yard this way, I would post a pic but it's not worth the hassle as it happens consistently.
I know it's not my set up at fault as I can install/remove a door and it's fine.


So you complain that you have this problem every time & then claim you're not doing anything wrong but won't post a screenshot.
You're here to assist in the development of the game so try & assist where possible please.

If it's an actual bug with the game then it needs spotted & reported on the mantis bug tracker. If you're simply doing something wrong which is perfectly possible then this should be identified.
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Postby Novbert » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:21 pm

Errorblankfield wrote:Imagine a large building with a hole cut out in the middle (like a doughnut).

Place yard somewhere in the middle of the cut out.

That's it.

>_> If it didn't happen literally every time I go for a yard this way, I would post a pic but it's not worth the hassle as it happens consistently.
I know it's not my set up at fault as I can install/remove a door and it's fine.


As I understand, the situation is this: You create a large rectangular foundation. You bulldoze the foundation in the middle. Then you have a 'rectangular doughnut' shaped building with walls on the outside of the doughnut, but no walls around the inside court.

Actually I think it all comes down to the fact that currently buildings doesn't need to have walls. I'd suspect that the algorithm that checks if the yard is functional traces for buildings around and maybe it declares the yard inaccessible if it only finds buildings but no doors. Personally I like to place walls on the edges of buildings for aesthetic reasons, but that's just a personal preference.

Maybe a similar thing to Dwarf Fortress cave-ins should be implemented in PA also to prevent the appearance of buildings with 'floating' ceilings?
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:22 pm

@Errorblankfield

Hi, haven't seen you around. Welcome to the dev forums. Please try to ignore any cynicism and curtness from certain people around here. It seems to be the only thing they know how to do. :wink:

Ric666 wrote:So you complain that you have this problem every time & then claim you're not doing anything wrong but won't post a screenshot.

He said that he will post a screenshot next time the issue comes up. And I didn't see it as a complaint, but a mentioning of a similar issue to the OP's issue when others were saying there should not be an issue at all. Just pointing out that it may in fact happen. And he never claimed he wasn't doing anything wrong, just that he knows how to fix it in the meantime. And I don't blame him for not complying with xander.. he made him look like a dunce. :roll:

Ric666 wrote:You're here to assist in the development of the game so try & assist where possible please.

Uh.... That's news to me. Not everyone is necessarily here to assist with development directly, nor should they be required to if they don't feel comfortable. Besides, some may just want to watch the developments as they happen or give opinions on things and be a part of the community, or even just get a feel for the place before making any serious contributions. Or simply waiting for the flak-cannon shots to die down. I know I am.
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Postby Ric666 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:19 pm

Spectre Incarnate wrote:-snip-


Did you read my reply? Their was no criticism there whatsoever.
I asked that if this is a problem every single time he/she builds a prison, this may or may not be a real problem & he/she should post a screenshot. Not much to ask. I did however miss the post above that said they would post 1 if it happened again. My bad.

When people buy into an early alpha release & post in a suggestion/bug topic, that is getting involved in the development of the game. You yourself have posted many times on wanting multiple floors. That is also being actively involved in the game development.
I would also make this assumption as the game will probably be cheaper when it finally releases so if you were not interested in the development, why buy now?!

Then again, a lot of folk just have no patience & want it now now now, no matter the price :P

You'll get used to Xander acting like he's high & mighty on these forums...lol! ;)
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Postby xander » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:50 pm

Spectre Incarnate wrote:And I don't blame him for not complying with xander.. he made him look like a dunce. :roll:

Christ, Spectre Incarnate, what the hell is your problem? I posted several responses indicated that I did not understand the problem, as I have not seen it before, and asking for screenshots in order to clarify. No one has yet provided any screenshots, and have only provided vague descriptions of what is going on. To me, Errorblankfield described an annulus with an entrance (a donughnut with a hold cut out of the side). Corners have problems, so I suggested that this could be the issue, but I didn't understand what he was describing. Novbert assumed that he made a foundation then bulldozed the interior. Clearly, it is not clear what was doing, so I asked for clarification. Errorblankfield decided to assume that I was calling him stupid. Then you decided that you didn't like my tone. This is exactly what I was talking about with regard to text being an imperfect medium for conveying nuance. You, for whatever reason, simply don't like me, and choose to read everything I write as though it is sarcastic and mean spirited. Get the fuck over it.

xander
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Postby paktsardines » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:25 pm

Thanks for reading what's posted instead of assuming I can't enclose a 5x5 square with a building.

I read what you posted and am still confused. How did you make your yard? Did you zone one large building and demolish 5x5 foundations in the middle to make your yard, or did you construct four foundations that surround one 5x5 yard?[/u]
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:28 pm

Ric666 wrote:Did you read my reply? Their was no criticism there whatsoever.

I know, I was just answering your question since you seemed confused?

Ric666 wrote:When people buy into an early alpha release & post in a suggestion/bug topic, that is getting involved in the development of the game.

I see what you're saying now, but originally I and a friend were imagining a drill sergeant. "You're here for this reason and this reason only." :shock: :lol:

Ric666 wrote:You yourself have posted many times on wanting multiple floors.

Heh, somewhat... mostly defending the concept of being allowed to discuss anything outside of what the "police" found worth discussing and I still hold to that. But I didn't start that thread and I didn't know I shouldn't have posted on that thread because I didn't know the OP should have necroed a thread. And I didn't know necroing threads was allowed here, because the first thing I saw when I came here was about *not* necroing topics... lol So, admittedly, that was extremely confusing. :?

Ric666 wrote:You'll get used to Xander acting like he's high & mighty on these forums...lol! ;)

I'm already used to it. I was used to it from day 1. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

xander wrote:I posted several responses indicated that I did not understand the problem, as I have not seen it before, and asking for screenshots in order to clarify.

So, what you're saying is, you said "I do not understand the problem. I've not seen this before. Could you please clarify with some screenshots?"
Boy, you sure do have an uncanny ability to be diplomatic and explanatory when you want to be. Why not just use that kind of attitude toward the newbies in the first place and help make this place a better community?
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Postby xander » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:53 pm

Spectre Incarnate wrote:So, what you're saying is, you said "I do not understand the problem. I've not seen this before. Could you please clarify with some screenshots?"
Boy, you sure do have an uncanny ability to be diplomatic and explanatory when you want to be. Why not just use that kind of attitude toward the newbies in the first place and help make this place a better community?

Here, here, and here. I did not use your exact words, but aside from being brief, there is nothing intrinsically rude about any of those posts. They literally express the fact that I have not experienced the problem and that I would like to see a screenshot for clarification. I am sorry that you have decided that this was meant to be sarcastic and demeaning. It was not meant that way.

xander
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Postby Errorblankfield » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:57 pm

Breezing over the stuff that happened above (thanks for the stick up Spectre)...

paktsardines wrote:
Thanks for reading what's posted instead of assuming I can't enclose a 5x5 square with a building.

I read what you posted and am still confused. How did you make your yard? Did you zone one large building and demolish 5x5 foundations in the middle to make your yard, or did you construct four foundations that surround one 5x5 yard?[/u]



I don't demolish the 5x5 (or any size for that matter) cause it costs more XD. I just built 'four' buildings that are connected and tear down the respective walls as needed.

I poked around with a new prison and built a simple 'four connected buildings with room in middle' without issue, so long as the yard wasn't built before all sides where complete. So that's good news.

Tried again and built the yard first. Had the error flag until all buildings where done to more good news. (I think this changed with the recent alpha.)

My normal buildings are more complex however, which might be the issue. I normally have a rather big prison where a two cell thick building encompasses a large empty void where I add things like canteens and such (I also remove the walls of the canteen which could be the source of the issue as well).

Then somewhere I stick the yard. It's red flagged until I add and remove a door. Then it never pops up again (which is why the screen shot is rather useless).

I'd love to show you this set up, but I don't even know where that save is floating around and I'm way too busy (just started a new job and school) to even think about making a new game.

Cheers.
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Postby xander » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:04 pm

Errorblankfield: I am still utterly confused. I literally have no idea what you are doing. It is incredibly frustrating, because if there is a bug, we would really like to know what is causing it, and if it is a mistake that you are making, I feel that you might like to know that for the future. Yet the one thing that you can do to help us all out is something that you refuse to do. Thow us a bone, man!

xander

EDIT: The way you are describing things, I have something like the following sequence in my head:

First, you designate a Yard.
Image

Then you build some buildings around the in the following manner:
Image

The problem is that the corners are still not secure:
Image

Building some fences solves the problem, and after a few seconds the Yard stops complaining that the requirements have not been met:
Image

There are several possibilities here:
  1. This is not what you are doing, and there is something else going on. This seems like the most likely explanation to me, but that leaves us where we were several days ago. I have no idea what you are trying to say, and a screenshot or two would make things easier. Even a screenshot of the completed prison with some indication as to what was built in what order would help. Please clarify.
  2. This is what you are doing, but there is some difference between the Mac version that I am running and whatever version you are running that is causing problems. Please clarify and post a bug report to the tracker.
  3. This is what you are doing, and you figured it out, but are embarrassed to admit that you made a mistake. If so, please get over the embarrassment. It isn't a big deal, and it would be nice to know whether or not a bug exists.

By the way, it took less than 15 minutes for me to put together the above sequence of screenshots, upload them to the intertubes, and write this edit. Are you seriously so overwhelmed with classes during the first week that you can't spare 15 minutes to help us out?
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Postby Errorblankfield » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:22 pm

Errorblankfield wrote:I'd love to show you this set up, but I don't even know where that save is floating around and I'm way too busy (just started a new job and school) to even think about making a new game.

Cheers.


It's not that hard to imagine...

Again, it's literally what the OP said... a yard that enclosed by buildings doesn't trigger right. It's minor and fixable (add/remove door). I can't show it too you without a time investment I do not have.
It's not worth showing as crazy easy to think of. It's a yard with the 'not all requirements met' flag on it when clearly the requirements are.

Perhaps a screeny would better convey my set up and assist in nailing out the why this occurs, but as already stated, I can't do that.

So closing. It's a enclosed yard that is flagged until you clearly enclose it or add/remove a door. Afterwards, you can freely remove any added doors/walls and the flag stays off.
Clearly there is something happening on the games end (or the flag would return) but I don't have the means to hammer it down myself.

May that be an end to that.
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Postby Errorblankfield » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:33 pm

Not the corners thing.

And now you are just annoying me. I've wasted enough time explaining what shouldn't need to be. At least read what I've said before lest you waste both our time.

1. Soundly enclosed yard. (Assume I'm not an idiot and can manage that much, thank you)
2. Error flag
3. Add remove door
4. Error flag gone for good.

That's IT.

I can't recreate it cause I don't know why it happens.
It's not my job to fix it so I don't feel like poking around for an hour to get it to happen again.
Furthermore, I don't care enough to spend even 15 min on something that will naturally arise again at some point and be dealt with.

It's so minor it doesn't even matter. It might have even been fixed already!
Odds are the game just wasn't(or isn't) checking the requirements routinely and instead waited for a trigger. As in, 'Oh, I see you added a door, better check to see if you are enclosed now. By golly, look at that, you are!'

Or a million other things that will likely be fixed and a result of other problems.
Either way, I'm done trouble shooting for someone else.

I just wanted to offer someone else a quick-fix... thanks for dragging it out into some big ordeal.
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:58 pm

xander wrote:I did not use your exact words, but aside from being brief, there is nothing intrinsically rude about any of those posts. They literally express the fact that I have not experienced the problem and that I would like to see a screenshot for clarification. I am sorry that you have decided that this was meant to be sarcastic and demeaning. It was not meant that way.

Fu...................ck. Wow. Shit, man, you're right. Those posts *were* fine! Those weren't even the posts that were in question! HAHAHAHAHA!! I'm a fucking idiot!! :lol:

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