False Alarms?

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henke37
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Postby henke37 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:31 am

Remember to do the math:

Say that 10 % of the prisoners have detectable contraband and that there are no false negatives. That's 10 % correct detection.
Then say that there is a false positive ratio of 10 %. That means that (100 % -10 % = 90 %) * 10 % = 9 % of the time there is a bad detection. That leads to a 1 % chance of false positives.
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_alphaBeta_
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Postby _alphaBeta_ » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:48 am

If your prison is designed with contraband control in mind, you're going to see mostly false positives. Prisoners have the intelligence avoid walking through them with metal objects. This means they essentially won't steal metal objects if they need to walk right through a metal detector to escape with them. Aside from arriving prisoners, I think I have 100% false positives inside the main complex. This is because there's nothing to detect.

Although it's hilarious, I do think that arriving prisoners should not be coming to the prison with shotguns under their belt. What kind of police are we accepting these prisoners from? :wink:
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Ric666
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Postby Ric666 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:10 pm

I like it very much. As been mentioned, they were just too good to this point. Guaranteed success every time.

It's forced me to remove some of my detectors as I used to place in some any places which obviously lead to a much higher false search chance. Cut back about 10-20% on my detector placement.

I can't wait for doggies!
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Postby Rycr » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:40 pm

Spectre Incarnate wrote:
hybris wrote:Ok, you're right but it seems they are too much.
It's not like at the airport where false detecting can happen because people wear belts, some kind of jewelry, watches, phones and shoes.
Prisoners can't wear like people are departing. So the false detecting is too exaggerated.

I keep wondering where the false detections are coming from... gold teeth?

Either that, or Mystique injected them all with iron. :wink:

....

Now I really want a superhero prison mod. :shock:


I'm not sure about having a superhero prison mod... Even a small riot would turn your prison into a smoking crater.
I may have a paltry number of posts, but I've been around since the Pre-Nakatomi days.
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:11 am

Remember to do the math


It's a little rude to dismiss our statements in their entirety, particularly when you're both wrong and patronising. I don't need to do the maths when I can just look at the screen and count the prisoners triggering the alarm. On my system 9 out of 10 detections are false positives. This happens ALL the time. No doubt I am experiencing a bug, but that doesn't make my statement any less correct.
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Postby RickyHobby » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:06 am

Perhaps there could be a more expensive detector to give more reliable detection. Perhaps a 'body scanner' (think USA TSA) which is really expensive, slow, and requires a guard stationed at it for it to work, but will detect all/most contraban (even non-metal) with 100% accuracy. This would allow you to use low cost metal detectors if you want (and annoy prisoners with unnecessary searches), or spend the money for something better. With it being slow would help balance spamming them everywhere when you have enough money, perhaps this would be a entrance type scan.

Rick
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Postby iScripters » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:11 am

RickyHobby wrote:Perhaps there could be a more expensive detector to give more reliable detection. Perhaps a 'body scanner' (think USA TSA) which is really expensive, slow, and requires a guard stationed at it for it to work, but will detect all/most contraban (even non-metal) with 100% accuracy. This would allow you to use low cost metal detectors if you want (and annoy prisoners with unnecessary searches), or spend the money for something better. With it being slow would help balance spamming them everywhere when you have enough money, perhaps this would be a entrance type scan.

Rick


I'd like that
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Postby MAdMaN » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:14 am

RickyHobby wrote:Perhaps a 'body scanner' (think USA TSA) which is really expensive, slow, and requires a guard stationed at it for it to work, but will detect all/most contraban (even non-metal) with 100% accuracy.

Those scanners have had problems detecting plastic and liquid explosives.
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Postby iScripters » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:17 am

MAdMaN wrote:
RickyHobby wrote:Perhaps a 'body scanner' (think USA TSA) which is really expensive, slow, and requires a guard stationed at it for it to work, but will detect all/most contraban (even non-metal) with 100% accuracy.

Those scanners have had problems detecting plastic and liquid explosives.


The scanner just gives an x-ray image and the guard has figure out what's what, right? Or am I mistaking it for something else?
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Postby MAdMaN » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:48 am

iScripters wrote:
MAdMaN wrote:
RickyHobby wrote:Perhaps a 'body scanner' (think USA TSA) which is really expensive, slow, and requires a guard stationed at it for it to work, but will detect all/most contraban (even non-metal) with 100% accuracy.

Those scanners have had problems detecting plastic and liquid explosives.


The scanner just gives an x-ray image and the guard has figure out what's what, right? Or am I mistaking it for something else?

Squashing plastic explosive thinly in an irregular shape against your skin makes it look just like normal anatomy, and the rays pass straight through liquid explosive components in polythene bags taped to the skin.
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:10 pm

TooDAMNMuch
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Postby TooDAMNMuch » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:04 pm

well this explains far too much, i've got to the point with my current prison that honestly, the game is far too easy, i make 8-20k daily in license plates, current goal is to have cells for 100 then more prisoners, at around 60ish or so.
but what i mean is i still have probably less than 10% detection rate on contraband in general and the prison is designed in a way that it is completely impossible to avoid metal detectors, you either want to eat, work or return to your cell and pass through the metal detector like a good slave, or you simply don't have a valid path.

there definitely needs to be some way to detect non-metal contraband if it is intended to not be detected by metal detectors, either that or have a way for my daily manual searches to not use every guard employed at once, at least leave 2-3 free to open doors for workers is all.
if you want to check my statements or have a nearly beaten prison go for it look it up under the name "Slave Labor" in the steam workshop, it'll self sustain itself indefinitely as far as i know without any player interaction, you may have to rehire guards after riots in the canteen but i doubt it.
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_alphaBeta_
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Postby _alphaBeta_ » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:06 pm

TooDAMNMuch wrote:well this explains far too much, i've got to the point with my current prison that honestly, the game is far too easy, i make 8-20k daily in license plates, current goal is to have cells for 100 then more prisoners, at around 60ish or so.
but what i mean is i still have probably less than 10% detection rate on contraband in general and the prison is designed in a way that it is completely impossible to avoid metal detectors, you either want to eat, work or return to your cell and pass through the metal detector like a good slave, or you simply don't have a valid path.

there definitely needs to be some way to detect non-metal contraband if it is intended to not be detected by metal detectors, either that or have a way for my daily manual searches to not use every guard employed at once, at least leave 2-3 free to open doors for workers is all.
if you want to check my statements or have a nearly beaten prison go for it look it up under the name "Slave Labor" in the steam workshop, it'll self sustain itself indefinitely as far as i know without any player interaction, you may have to rehire guards after riots in the canteen but i doubt it.

The contraband system isn't finished. The developers are well aware that the other contraband types aren't detectable at the moment, unless you happen to find them in a shakedown. This is also why non-metal contraband doesn't have an effect on the gameplay at the moment. It's there, and prisoners "have" it, but it doesn't matter. Judging by past comments, the Alpha-12 video, and the contraband overlay, we're going to have ways of detecting "smelly" contraband etc. There's already supposedly some sprites concerning dogs in the game, just not used yet.

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