[Suggestion] Multiplayer and Prisoner Run

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Would you like to see this in the game, even if it were an expansion?

Yes
32
55%
No
19
33%
Maybe, if certain parts were changed
7
12%
 
Total votes: 58
NoOpen
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Postby NoOpen » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:36 am

Spectre Incarnate wrote:
NoOpen wrote:It will and is happening, At least on a personal lan scale.


Sounds like you have a plan to make a mod for multiplayer, perhaps? I can support that, definitely, even if I don't care for it myself.


Indeed, I am only intending to make it work on a LAN scale, Of course that also means you can easily play online using tools like hamachi.

Always open for help.
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Postby ghostly_smoke » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:54 pm

xander wrote:I think what most people here are getting wrong is that MULTIPLAYER IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It doesn't really matter how much you want it. IV are not going to implement multiplayer. If I were one to gamble, I would put money on it.

xander


What I don't understand is how or why you think it. You choose to just say no, instead of no and why. Why wouldn't Introversion do it? It's more work for them, meaning more to sell, and more dollars for them. Saying no to an idea which the majority of the community may love and purchase, makes no sense. Why wouldn't Introversion like to sell that to there customers? They're only going to make what their customers want, not something that isn't going to sell. So saying it isn't going to happen is just the same as saying no I wouldn't buy it. Showing encouragement like that to Introversion, no they won't make it.

I hope Introversion proves you wrong, because it will only make them richer.
NoOpen
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Postby NoOpen » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:29 am

This is all information in my head which could be 100% incorrect.

I believe introversion and its core fans are opposed to multiplayer. If I am remembering correctly IV was forced to make "Multiwinia" to get on the Xbox Arcade.
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Postby ghostly_smoke » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:19 am

NoOpen wrote:This is all information in my head which could be 100% incorrect.

I believe introversion and its core fans are opposed to multiplayer. If I am remembering correctly IV was forced to make "Multiwinia" to get on the Xbox Arcade.


Well, maybe an IV employee could jump on and tell you. :)

Also, why would the core fans oppose multiplayer? I like single player myself, but sometimes I like to enjoy the occasional multiplayer game. I don't see why people would say no to it, because it just allows you to play multiplayer. I don't see why it would be terrible to allow multiplayer. It doesn't mean you would have to play it.

If Introversion is truly against it, then I must ask, why? It's only so much fun to play with a bot, but play with and against friends is so much fun. I have friends which have asked me about this game, because I play it so much, if it has any multiplayer option.
NoOpen
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Postby NoOpen » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:13 am

Play with a "bot" its single player not playing with AI
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Postby ghostly_smoke » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:26 am

NoOpen wrote:Play with a "bot" its single player not playing with AI


Sorry, The prisoners/AI isn't as fun as having some players mixed in with them. The prisoners is what I was referring to when I said bots. Sorry, I didn't make it very clear in my statement. It happens from time to time with my wording.

The games that I thought up only puts players into the prisoners shoes, it has nothing to do with mulitple wardens or anything. I thought it would be funny to let a player take control of a semi-AI-controlled prisoner. The prisoner would work the same as a compliant prisoner, but the player could tell him to do things. Almost modifying the guards to look like a prisoner, act like one, but players still have the ability to control them. So have them steal weapons and dig holes when told, and only when told. So the prison should act the same, but when a player controlled prisoner escape it displays their username. The Warden would get a list of users inside the prison, but the prisoners wouldn't be tagged with their usernames and have a random criminal name and bio.

So I don't see what's so wrong with it. It isn't much different, modes where they have a time limit is on the users heads, otherwise the warden isn't bothered. It's prisoners, just doing their best to escape.
Spectre Incarnate
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:52 am

ghostly_smoke wrote:Well, maybe an IV employee could jump on and tell you. :)

IKR! Or at least a moderator of some sort would be nice. And I don't mean one of the self-proclaimed deputies with a seniority complex that know nothing but how to throw their weight around and yell at new members. Why doesn't this forum have a regular moderator? I'm sure they knew they would need one after the Steam Summer Sale, and now this Humble Bundle will probably bring an influx of new players, as well.

Also, why would the core fans oppose multiplayer?

This is only what I've heard, but apparently because Chris was forced to make the multiplayer version of Darwinia for XBox (as NoOpen mentioned), he was drained and stressed doing something he didn't really have any interest in doing. I understand that, being an artist myself, but it doesn't mean people can't talk about the idea of how a multiplayer Prison game would go in theory. I also find it amusing that those of us that have lesser interest in multiplayer gaming overall are the ones trying to support the idea the most. That's what I like to see!

I am at least highly intrigued by the talk of how one would go about modding this, in any case. And perhaps I would play a few modded multiplayer PA sessions, if only for the lawls against the naysayers... :wink:
Spectre Incarnate
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:58 am

NoOpen wrote:Play with a "bot" its single player not playing with AI

EDIT: I'm sorry, that was harsh of me. This whole forum is making me edgy.
I think you knew what he meant though, so could we not pick nits, please?
NoOpen
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Postby NoOpen » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:05 pm

Spectre Incarnate wrote:
NoOpen wrote:Play with a "bot" its single player not playing with AI

EDIT: I'm sorry, that was harsh of me. This whole forum is making me edgy.
I think you knew what he meant though, so could we not pick nits, please?


I did not catch it before the edit, I assume it was harsh nature'd.

No I had no clue what so ever what he meant, This game is purely single player and as he mentioned and was correct to assume I thought multiple wardens which was incorrect making my comment needed and very helpful to this topic.
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Postby Spectre Incarnate » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:32 pm

Yeah, sorry.. I see that now. I thought you were picking at semantics. Please, continue. :oops:
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Postby xander » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:04 am

ghostly_smoke wrote:What I don't understand is how or why you think it.

Because I pay attention. IV tacked on a multiplayer game to Darwinia after not initially designing the game around a multiplayer idea. It was a tremendous expenditure of time and flopped horribly. Prison Architect has clearly been designed from the beginning to be a single player game, and IV have clearly learned their lesson about tacking multplayer play into a single player game. Multiplayer Prison Architect simply isn't going to happen. It has nothing to do with what I want or don't want, nor what you want or don't want. It just isn't going to happen. Thinking otherwise is to deny reality.

ghostly_smoke wrote:It's more work for them, meaning more to sell, and more dollars for them.

History shows that you don't know what you are talking about. At the very least, your conclusion does not follow from the premise.

ghostly_smoke wrote:Saying no to an idea which the majority of the community may love and purchase, makes no sense.

What majority?

ghostly_smoke wrote:They're only going to make what their customers want, not something that isn't going to sell.

This betrays an ignorance of the history of IV. IV very specifically don't make things just to make money. They want to create good games and would love to make a modest living doing so. But, at the end of the day, it seems clear that producing games that have meaning is more important to them than creating games just to sell as many copies as possible. And you have yet to prove that a multiplayer game would sell any better than the single player game.

ghostly_smoke wrote:So saying it isn't going to happen is just the same as saying no I wouldn't buy it.

No, not at all. Saying that it isn't going to happen is saying exactly that. It isn't going to happen. I probably would buy a multiplayer version of Prison Architect if it came out, but it isn't.

ghostly_smoke wrote:I hope Introversion proves you wrong, because it will only make them richer.

I am quite certain that they won't.

xander
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CriticalRocket
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Postby CriticalRocket » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:32 am

Those ideas sound like lots of fun!

Playing with a group of friends, joining someone's prison and turning into one of the possibly 100 other prisoners.
Trying to escape, start riots and more.

I don't know if multiplayer will happen or not, but it doesn't matter. I just like these ideas ;)
Hey, you there, yes you, the one reading this. Stop reading this. NOW! I'm giving you ONE last warning! Stop! No! Wait! Don't read more! Or I'll..
I'll.. I'll write angry messages on your profile!

Ugh. I give up.
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Postby MediumEvil » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:42 am

Multiplayer just isn't something that can be put into all games.
Its like trying to make multiplayer for games like:
- Lemmings
- Cities XL
- From Dust
- Tropico series
- Papers, Please
- Surgeon Sim
etc.
It just doesn't always work.
Pogo
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Postby Pogo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:40 pm

MediumEvil wrote:Multiplayer just isn't something that can be put into all games.
Its like trying to make multiplayer for games like:
- Lemmings
- Cities XL
- From Dust
- Tropico series
- Papers, Please
- Surgeon Sim
etc.
It just doesn't always work.

This list is far from complete, by the way.

Prison Architect is simply one of the most recent entries into an extraordinarily large genre known as "business simulation game".

Just google that phrase and you'll find a plethora of games that are very similar to Prison Architect, though some have very different themes. And one thing that most all of these games have in common is that they are almost all single player. There are some that are multiplayer, but they are the exceptions--not the rule.

So if you're going to talk about Prison Architect as a multiplayer game, you need to compare it too other games in the genre that are multiplayer. The suggestions so far for making Prison Architect multiplayer have been for making people control individual prisoners... which isn't even close to the original theme of the game. You're taking people who have bought a simulation/tycoon game and saying "Oh yea, we've got an action/strategy multiplayer mode too, wanna play that?" That doesn't sound very appealing to me. If I want to play an action/strategy multiplayer game, I'll play a game that was built from the ground up with this intent, with or without the prison theme. Besides, the whole point to a Prison Architect multiplayer really just seems to be trying to escape, and how long is that going to be an interesting game mode? A whole 5 minutes I imagine.

But let's look at the business simulation games that have done multiplayer.

Sid Meier's Railroads offered LAN/network multiplayer. Can't remember if you could do it over the Internet easily or not. But the thing is... the multiplayer game mode was identical to the single player game mode, just you were playing against a human instead of the AI. You each control individual railroad companies and build up your own company, trying to drive the other companies out of business.

Can't really do this with Prison Architect. Prisons don't really open up across the street from each other and try driving one another out of business... there's not much of a competitive aspect to prison building. The only competitive part about it might be bidding for the initial grants.


The newest iteration of SimCity was built multiplayer, or at least multi-city with the multiplayer option from the ground up. Additionally, SimCity 2000 released back in like '96 had a network edition mod released eventually that allowed multiplayer play, and SimCity 4 released in 2003 could achieve a sort of simulated multiplayer mode via Dropbox and sharing save files. I'm not clear on exactly how the networked multiplayer worked in SC2k, but I can comment on SC4 and the new SC. The new SimCity, well... it's pretty broken. It was designed as an online-only game from the ground up, but seems most likely that it was done for anti-piracy reasons more than anything. So the multiplayer wasn't necessarily a design choice so much as a "hey, let's put this in as an excuse for the anti-piracy measures we're putting in!" Your residents are supposed to be able to commute to neighboring cities for work, school, shopping, tourism, etc. Your industries are supposed to be able to fill their jobs from workers in neighboring cities. Your shops are supposed to be filled with shoppers from neighboring cities. Your schools and tourism sights are supposed to be filled from neighboring cities. But none of this inter-city exchanging happens, at least not reliably, nor at a realistic rate (part of the problem is, a city with a population of 150,000 might have 30,000 workers, 20,000 students, and 100,000 people who apparently just sit at home all day). You can play an entire region single player, or you could invite your friends to play the neighboring cities. Either way, the inter-city interactions don't work reliably, and so you pretty much have to play each single city in a sandbox by itself and forget entirely that you have neighbors... so the multiplayer pretty much doesn't work except to say that I can easily go view my neighbors city... but that was already as easy as sharing a save file in previous iterations of the game.

As for SimCity 4's dropbox multiplayer, well... first off, it's essentially a mod, and not anything officially supported. But it still works sort of wonky. The game includes no periodic auto-saving. So if you and I are playing are neighboring cities for 8 hours at a time, growing our cities, but you're not regularly saving your city and letting my dropbox update your city, then at some point, your city may go from a little town of 2,000 residents to a large city of 200,000+ residents all in one save, and that can cause havoc on what's going on in my city. And what's most important to note here is that the neighboring cities in SimCity 4 don't have nearly as big of an impact on each other as they're supposed to have in the newer SimCity. The multiplayer is an okay idea, just a little pointless.



But either way, SimCity multiplayer is realistic, believable, and all of the people involved in the multiplayer are still playing the same kind of game as anyone who would be playing the single player version of the game.




There is one business simulation game that is designed as single player and has been single player for many, many years, but I can easily see as being a quite fun multiplayer game if properly implemented? Tropico. But my multiplayer version of this game would be every player controlling their own island. The decisions each player makes on imports/exports can effect the overall economy for the ocean, so you impact other players in that way. Also, relationships with the US/USSR can be globally effected by individual players to a certain degree. And, a player could have the option to send his militia over to another island to either straight up declare war on the other player, or to perhaps give some support to rebels attempting to overthrow the other player, or perhaps even provide some help fighting off a coup, or maybe even assisting the other player's militia in fighting off rebels, etc. It would all just depend on your relationship with the other player. Moreover, multiplayer could make the economy more interesting between the islands. For example, perhaps you've got plenty of lush farmland on your island and you want to use all of it growing crops. And I've not got much in the way of farmland. I could educate my island and build factories to can your crops and such, you send your crops to me to be canned, and we split the profits, etc. Win-win.
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Postby ghostly_smoke » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:28 am

Well I guess I don't care anymore. Even though there are more yes, than no's up on board it doesn't matter, right? IV doesn't seem to check these forums, let alone manage them. I see some of you are taking as a good idea and would love to see it in a mod, but what's the point of me wasting my time when IV doesn't even wanna pop in with an opinion. If they say nope, then I'll stop talking about it as a expansion and more as asking for someone to make a mod. At that point I'll pay the designer to make the mod.

I find it amazing that people just come here to say it won't happen and that's it. I found the last post a little more helpful, but at the same time one opinion doesn't make it majority. I just came up with an idea that I thought would be nice. If you guys don't like the idea, then just vote no.

Also, one last note to Xander. Why did they waste their time with multiwinia, if they didn't want to make money? But that's the thing, they only WANTED and repeated what they did with defcon. IV can choose to make money or choose to make games they personally like and don't get me wrong, you can make money with it; but I don't see them taking off anytime soon with a model they've chosen. It works great for a cult following, but not a majority. Also, I won't see any reply you send me, because I'm not going to revisit this forum again.

IV just doesn't fit my style of games, so I guess I better move on and quiet trying to change it. I guess it's also pointless if I asking for a mod too, since I'm not going to be checking it again, so have a nice day.

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