[suggestion] Make metal detector tile speed sloooww.

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Slow detectors?

yay
38
67%
nay
19
33%
 
Total votes: 57
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paktsardines
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[suggestion] Make metal detector tile speed sloooww.

Postby paktsardines » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:28 am

Hi guys,

Others have mentioned how the 3 second metal-dectector thingy is unrealistic, yet clearly there needs to be a down-side to using metal detectors.
Instead, I think it would be better to have metal detectors slow the speed of prisoners who pass through them, effectively creating bottlenecks where they are placed. This is both realistic (consider metal detectors at airports), and discourages placing of metal detectors in areas of frequent high traffic.


edit: Obviously a prisoner would speed up again once they've passed through the detector... ;)

edit2: To clarify, this idea would encourage placement of detectors in places where prisoners must travel, but not at the same time, such as prison entrance, visitation, workshops, library( when there is one) etc...
Last edited by paktsardines on Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
HerrJoebob
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Postby HerrJoebob » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:18 am

I voted Nay for gameplay reasons - the metal detectors are placed at chokepoints such as the canteen entrance which already slow the inmates down, so I don't see slowing them down even more being fun.
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:44 am

I should point out that, in real life, it woudn't be a good idea to put a metal detector in a canteen either - by the time everyone was scanned there wouldn't be time to eat.. I think this idea makes detector placement much more strategic and more realistic.
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Postby xander » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:40 am

I don't think that three seconds is unrealistic, in the following sense: if you are really passing people through metal detectors, you want them to go one at a time so that when it goes off, you know who set it off. Plus it takes time to removed someone from the queue and get the next person through when it goes off. And an extra couple of guards right there to do the search...

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Postby Skyllz » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:11 am

I vote no because you don't want high traffic areas getting slowed down. If I wanted them slowed though, I would lay some grass on or around it.
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Postby hugeknight » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:30 am

paktsardines wrote:I should point out that, in real life, it woudn't be a good idea to put a metal detector in a canteen either - by the time everyone was scanned there wouldn't be time to eat.. I think this idea makes detector placement much more strategic and more realistic.


QFT

i definitely agree mate.
More realistic not more arcadey!
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:54 pm

I vote no because you don't want high traffic areas getting slowed down


Yeah, but the whole point is that metal detectors shouldn't be in high traffic areas anyway. *sigh*
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Postby Check Six » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:33 pm

paktsardines wrote:I should point out that, in real life, it woudn't be a good idea to put a metal detector in a canteen either - by the time everyone was scanned there wouldn't be time to eat.. I think this idea makes detector placement much more strategic and more realistic.


I was site security manager of a warehouse where very expensive electronic gear was stored. The workers had just 15 minutes for their morning and afternoon tea breaks, and had to travel some 100 metres to get to the security metal detector before they were scanned and allowed to pass through, then they had to wait in line to be processed, then they had to go to their lockers to get their cigarettes or whatever they wanted to do.

If this is the case, delays aren't appreciated, so everyone makes sure they have no metal on or about them as they approach the metal detectors. Mobile phones were not permitted at all (as one of the goods we stored was mobile phones), nor were cigarettes (both a fire hazard and a theft device). Mostly people passing through just tossed a few coins in the tray, passed through quickly, and stopped and "adopted the position" if the metal detector sounded an audible alarm.

NO.. not THAT position! The one where you stand with your arms spread out like a crucifiction...no cavity searches!

The worker was quickly but thoroughly scanned front and back by a hand-held wand whilst everyone else waited. There wasn't any spare guard to take the worker aside for scanning whilst another monitored those passing through.

It all worked pretty smoothly unless the guard was slow in scanning the "beepers".

So, in a prison, where there should be no metal AT ALL... EVER... the metal detection process should be quick and easy. And you can have more than guard near your metal detector if you desire. I don't think there is any need to slow down the process, and I think the three seconds is unrealistic.

I haven't checked my metal detection process since Alpha 12, but I read here in another thread that it is only not working for three seconds AFTER metal is detected on a prisoner, so if all are behaving, they should pass through normally.

Perhaps it might pay to investigate the process. If there are no metal detectors in the canteen, see how long it takes them to pass, then install metal detectors and watch again. It should be the same, and so they should be placed wherever they are needed, not just in places where prisoners should pass once a day. The prisoners are not processed manually by a guard with a hand-held wand if they "beep" in PA, so that shouldn't slow down the process. They are searched, and invariably end up in solitary.
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Postby garf » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:55 pm

I thought the slowing idea had some merit at first (and I voted accordingly) but after reading Check Six' reply I've had a change of heart. Especially this part...

The worker was quickly but thoroughly scanned front and back by a hand-held wand whilst everyone else waited. There wasn't any spare guard to take the worker aside for scanning whilst another monitored those passing through.

It all worked pretty smoothly unless the guard was slow in scanning the "beepers".

So, in a prison, where there should be no metal AT ALL... EVER... the metal detection process should be quick and easy. And you can have more than guard near your metal detector if you desire. I don't think there is any need to slow down the process, and I think the three seconds is unrealistic.


Now I've started thinking that maybe metal detectors should be manned similarly to cctv monitors. Unmanned detectors would allow prisoners to pass freely with no detection ever occurring (essentially the detector would be "off") while manned ones would operate the same as they do now. If a detection occurs then the detector would function as a sort of door, preventing subsequent prisoners from moving through while the guard manning it searches the potential offender. You could also be allowed to assign more then one guard per detector to allow continuous traffic flow. That way if one guard has to take someone aside to search them, another one will immediately take his place.

A potential downside would be the micromanagement as , for example, you wouldn't want to leave 3 or 4 guards manning the detectors in your canteen all day when they're only needed for an hour or two. This could lead to a lot of messing around in the deployment screen. A possible solution could be to make manning a metal detector a job, just like opening a door. Guards that are unassigned or stationed in a room with detectors would automatically take care of that task. This might cause some kind of additional bottleneck though as jobs are automatically generated and assigned. As everyone already knows, the time between a prisoner needing a door opened and actually having it opened for them can vary quite a bit and this could cause some potentially serious traffic flow issues. This makes me think the first idea of straight up manning the detectors would work out better despite the extra micromanagement.

Unfortunately neither solution is really perfect but either way I agree that metal detectors need some changes to function in a more realistic way and I'm eager to read people's thoughts on the matter.
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Postby Crythor » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:57 pm

How about the prisoners line up in front of the metal detector and go through one at a time instead of in a big blob
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Postby qwert7661 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:10 pm

This is a philosophy about this game I discovered last night.
Prison Architect is about using the complex technology the developers give you and designing it to work how you want. The game is interesting because it's YOUR system that succeeds or fails because YOU created it, not the programmers. With this philosophy in mind, it's obvious that the more options available in the game, the better.

Metal detectors, along with everything else, should be customizable. Do you set it up so that each prisoner has instructions to go through one at a time? Do you order a guard to stay their to ensure the process is followed? Etc etc. In this thread, and this forum, all of the suggestions that we have are just what WE would do for OUR prison, whether we aim for realism, efficiency, aesthetics... For the game to be great, it must allow virtually all of our visions to exist.

Let the devs program the prisoners entirely - they are the force that we cannot control. But give US the programming rights to our staff, our facilities, our schedule (you see, we already have this right, and it is one of the most important things that distinguishes one prison from another) and our deliveries. And our metal detectors.
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Postby commanderkai » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:21 pm

Slow, yes, but not that slow. I think a better punishment would be forcing metal detectors to have a guard near them. So if you have two metal detectors for your large jailhouse door to your canteen, you need a guard assigned there for them to work. Maybe if more advanced technologies are introduced (say, metal detctors and CCTVs working together can identify positives and automatically order a search, instead of the current system where metal detectors just immediately flag a prisoner for a search.) the guard can be removed. Seems a bit silly metal detectors can work without somebody there watching who is flagged positive or not.
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Postby pkamppur » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:03 am

qwert7661 wrote:Let the devs program the prisoners entirely - they are the force that we cannot control. But give US the programming rights to our staff, our facilities, our schedule (you see, we already have this right, and it is one of the most important things that distinguishes one prison from another) and our deliveries. And our metal detectors.


+1 Yes, this is what I want the game to be about! So yeah, I like the idea of configuring/manning the metal detectors how I want, choosing from a few options so I can make them a little different in different kinds of prisons I want to build.

By the way, are there many metal detectors in prisons in reality? I don't have the slightest idea :) I'm just wondering how and where are they used in real life.

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