Bug/exploit regarding license plate pay-day.

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qwert7661
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Bug/exploit regarding license plate pay-day.

Postby qwert7661 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:24 am

At midnight, all your profits and expenses are calculated instantly except license plate money, which sort of continuously tallies up as each unit is sold for about 20 seconds. In an experiment where I set my entire regime to work, 24 hours a day, I found that as the prisoners continued to produce license plates at midnight, the tally never stopped - each new license plate that was made was instantly sold, and kept refreshing the tally, giving me my cash as it came. This is a good exploit for having your money as soon as it gets to you rather than having to wait until every cycle (probably not an exploit that the devs actually want to exist, but you know how it is.) There is also an interesting quirk of this system. If you pause the game, license plate production pauses along with it, but the tally does not. If you pause for more than a second, the tally will consider itself "all finished" and fade away.

edit: another great thing about this exploit (not that I think it should stay, ofc,) it sells the plates as soon as they're made so the prisoners don't waste time moving them to tables. The non-stop cha ching never gets old, either.
Last edited by qwert7661 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:28 am

Ha.. Good find. I suspect though that the benefits gained from having constant income is outweighed by the horrible noise your computer would be making 24 hours a day. :P
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Postby qwert7661 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:39 am

paktsardines wrote:Ha.. Good find. I suspect though that the benefits gained from having constant income is outweighed by the horrible noise your computer would be making 24 hours a day. :P


You read my mind even before I edited my post :P
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Postby VoiD88 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:36 pm

I had a regime in Alpha 10 that would have them work through the night and the continuous selling of license plates would always stop at 1 a.m. Maybe they changed it in A11, haven't tried it yet :P
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Postby SekondaHuet » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:38 pm

qwert7661 wrote:
paktsardines wrote:Ha.. Good find. I suspect though that the benefits gained from having constant income is outweighed by the horrible noise your computer would be making 24 hours a day. :P


You read my mind even before I edited my post :P


My PC hasn't been switched off in seven months.
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Re: Bug/exploit regarding license plate pay-day.

Postby Acreyzek » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:57 am

qwert7661 wrote:At midnight, all your profits and expenses are calculated instantly except license plate money, which sort of continuously tallies up as each unit is sold for about 20 seconds. In an experiment where I set my entire regime to work, 24 hours a day, I found that as the prisoners continued to produce license plates at midnight, the tally never stopped - each new license plate that was made was instantly sold, and kept refreshing the tally, giving me my cash as it came. This is a good exploit for having your money as soon as it gets to you rather than having to wait until every cycle (probably not an exploit that the devs actually want to exist, but you know how it is.) There is also an interesting quirk of this system. If you pause the game, license plate production pauses along with it, but the tally does not. If you pause for more than a second, the tally will consider itself "all finished" and fade away.

edit: another great thing about this exploit (not that I think it should stay, ofc,) it sells the plates as soon as they're made so the prisoners don't waste time moving them to tables. The non-stop cha ching never gets old, either.


I don't think this is a bug nor an exploit. Why should it be an exploit if you are still making your prisoners work and make the license plates at a normal rate, nothing will result in a higher earning than if you waited for the license plates to be sold at midnight

I you think about it, why would you want to make a 24/7 work regime if you are playing the game sereously, doesn't make sense i my head, but thats just MY opinion.

If you think about it from the devs perspective, how should they fix it, if they re-write the code to only sell for... say 1 hour after midnigt, that would limit the money made from the workshop resulting in shorter game time on a single prisone. Currently i can't think of any way for the devs to limit this 'exploit' in a proper way which still leaves the workshop USEFULL -But don't take my word for it since i haven't had much to do with coding of any sort-
... I can't think of any way to limit it but one, if you make all the license plates sell at once, but then again, i think it is fine just at it is
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Postby NoOpen » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:16 am

It is not an exploit in my personal opinion bug yes but nothing useful can be gained.

I tested it last night and as someone else commented if you have a 24 hour work scheudle in the end your prisoners will riot your not fufilling there desires, With say a 11pm-12am-1am Scheulde they will stop contionouslly selling after 1:01am if your license plate stock depletes to 0
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Postby Pogo » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:25 am

I don't understand how anyone can say this isn't an exploit.

Yes, there are inherent dangers in running a 24/7 work regime... but there's clearly a problem with how the game handles income/outcome.

Consider if in the future we're allowed to set up different regimes for different cell blocks. If I put cell block A working in the workshop from midnight to noon, and cell block B from noon to midnight...

or if I put A mid-6, B 6am-noon, C noon-6pm, D, 6pm-midnight... whatever I do... if we're given the ability to break portions of our population onto different regimes, which is a heavily requested feature, we can still accomplish working the workshop 24/7 without the security risk that would come from non-stop working prisoners.


And the point here is... even if you only have very few prisoners working the workshop, as long as you're constantly selling license plates, there's too many individual small incomes in the queue to cha-ching through for the deficits to be calculated, ever. The end-of-day income/outcome needs to take priority. However the finances are handled in code, whenever midnight rolls around, the program just needs to pause the license plate money for a second, and insert the daily income/outcome at the front of the queue.
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Postby qwert7661 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:18 am

Pogo wrote:I don't understand how anyone can say this isn't an exploit.

Yes, there are inherent dangers in running a 24/7 work regime... but there's clearly a problem with how the game handles income/outcome.

Consider if in the future we're allowed to set up different regimes for different cell blocks. If I put cell block A working in the workshop from midnight to noon, and cell block B from noon to midnight...

or if I put A mid-6, B 6am-noon, C noon-6pm, D, 6pm-midnight... whatever I do... if we're given the ability to break portions of our population onto different regimes, which is a heavily requested feature, we can still accomplish working the workshop 24/7 without the security risk that would come from non-stop working prisoners.


And the point here is... even if you only have very few prisoners working the workshop, as long as you're constantly selling license plates, there's too many individual small incomes in the queue to cha-ching through for the deficits to be calculated, ever. The end-of-day income/outcome needs to take priority. However the finances are handled in code, whenever midnight rolls around, the program just needs to pause the license plate money for a second, and insert the daily income/outcome at the front of the queue.



Exactly. It also allows you to gain money during the day, rather than only at every 24 hour cycle, and saves prisoners time for having to take the finished plates off the benches so that they spend virtually all of their time working. It is an exploit - not as good of an exploit as, say, being able to edit the amount of money you have in a simple text file but it is an implausible advantage for the game. There's a lot of easy ways to fix this.

"... I can't think of any way to limit it but one, if you make all the license plates sell at once, but then again, i think it is fine just at it is"

This is obviously the first and easiest way and I don't think anyone will miss the countdown pay. Another much better way is to have the plates shipped out of the prison much like garbage is shipped out. This could be done by workmen as an automatic job at any time, or only once at midnight, or at 8 AM when the prisoner bus comes, anything. Another way is to make plates that were produced after midnight not sell themselves until the midnight of their day. Another way is to change autosave so that it happens every day at midnight - this causes the game to pause allowing the cha-ching to end itself naturally during the pause. Be imaginative. This isn't a huge issue and I never claimed it was THAT interesting, but this isn't something that should make it to the final game.
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Postby Pogo » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:17 pm

For now... I think forcing the auto-save on to midnight is actually a good solution... albeit temporary. For now, it would be good for the game to just pause at midnight, let everything catch up, then auto-save, then continue...

But with that said... I find the auto-save pretty annoying as it stands. I don't understand how/why auto-save takes so long. This is a separate issue that needs to be fixed at some point in time...
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Postby henke37 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:42 am

I think it is pretty simple: have a priority queue for the notifications and add a maximum length. Anything that would spill is added instantly and silently. Oh and make the plates sell in bulk.
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Postby Darryn » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:14 pm

Wouldnt a better solution be for license plates to only be sold when they are moved from the workshop to the storage area, and then maybe even sent off by truck and the cash generated when they leave the map in the truck? why should the all sell at midnight and just magically disappear?
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Postby MAdMaN » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:37 pm

Darryn wrote:Wouldnt a better solution be for license plates to only be sold when they are moved from the workshop to the storage area, and then maybe even sent off by truck and the cash generated when they leave the map in the truck? why should the all sell at midnight and just magically disappear?

Don't think of it as them selling at midnight, more as that's when the purchasers' banks transfer the money to your account.
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Postby Szafa » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:50 pm

So I will attach here, actuall BUG regarding plates creation.

In new Alpha 12, it is possible to use machines for plates creation without power connected.

I found it this way:

generator-----power_switch-----workshop

after prisoners go to their machines, I cut off the power and they are still working ( I will check later if it is also possible to not connect power at all ).

I hope that I didnt duplicate post of someone (I made quick overview of this forum but did not found anything like this bug).
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Postby paktsardines » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:12 am

Bugs are reported at http://bugs.introversion.co.uk, and yours is well known and already reported.

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