Introversion

I was brownsing the PA Wiki when i came across this "thing"

This is a direct quote from the wiki "Know Bugs" section

Removing interior walls using the Demolish Foundation tool marks the selected tiles as "outdoors", making them unusable for rooms, certain interior flooring, etc. Instead, place the flooring that you want over the existing walls

This is a NOT a bug, but rather a mistake made by a wiki moderator, if you use the Demolish FOUNDATION tool, you will demolish a foundation rather than a wall, and when the foundation is removed so is the wall on top of it

The correct tool to use if you want to remove walls, regardless of their placement is the Demolish WALLS

I really dont understand what purpose the foundation tool serves. Why not just use the tools from the material tabs to build your rooms? Indoor space should be defined in terms of being inside walls and having somekind of indoor floor tile.

Having a separate tab for foundations and a separate demolish tool for them just makes things convoluted.

I think that used to happen no matter which demolish tool you used. However I do believe it was fixed quite a while ago so chances are that the wiki page hasn't been updated.

Feel free to update it, that's what wikis are for...

paktsardines wrote:Feel free to update it, that's what wikis are for...

Not sure if i can update it...

GiantSpacePuppy wrote:I really dont understand what purpose the foundation tool serves. Why not just use the tools from the material tabs to build your rooms? Indoor space should be defined in terms of being inside walls and having somekind of indoor floor tile.

There is an honest-to-goodness reason to have inside vs outside manually designated. First off, simply surrounding things by walls isn't sufficient, as the entire prison could be surrounded by a wall and thus designated inside. The flooring material is also not sufficient, as there exists at least one material that can be either inside or outside (concrete tile). Moreover, inside areas do need to be designated, as it changes how wiring works, who cleans the area (gardeners vs janitors), and several other bits and bobbles depend on which 'side they are on.

I (and others) suggested a long time ago (alpha 1? 2?) that the foundation tool should be changed or relabeled in some manner. My preference would be for a foundation tool that does nothing except lay a foundation (i.e. places a concrete floor and designates the area "inside"). If you want walls or lights, do it yourself. Additionally, there could be a "Build Building" tool, which would behave exactly as the current foundation tool---lay a foundation, designate it inside, build walls, and place lights.

xander

xander wrote:

GiantSpacePuppy wrote:I really dont understand what purpose the foundation tool serves. Why not just use the tools from the material tabs to build your rooms? Indoor space should be defined in terms of being inside walls and having somekind of indoor floor tile.

There is an honest-to-goodness reason to have inside vs outside manually designated. First off, simply surrounding things by walls isn't sufficient, as the entire prison could be surrounded by a wall and thus designated inside. The flooring material is also not sufficient, as there exists at least one material that can be either inside or outside (concrete tile). Moreover, inside areas do need to be designated, as it changes how wiring works, who cleans the area (gardeners vs janitors), and several other bits and bobbles depend on which 'side they are on.

I (and others) suggested a long time ago (alpha 1? 2?) that the foundation tool should be changed or relabeled in some manner. My preference would be for a foundation tool that does nothing except lay a foundation (i.e. places a concrete floor and designates the area "inside"). If you want walls or lights, do it yourself. Additionally, there could be a "Build Building" tool, which would behave exactly as the current foundation tool---lay a foundation, designate it inside, build walls, and place lights.

xander

Fair enough.. though I still don't see how it is necessary, since even with the foundation tool you still have to designate rooms manually (indoors or out) anyhow.

Regarding the topic of this thread, instead of having yet another tool for laying a different type of foundation, I'd also strongly prefer the foundation tool to only lay a foundation to build on, nothing else. Then again I believe these are pretty much technical issues, to be solved in the beta most likely..

GiantSpacePuppy wrote:Fair enough.. though I still don't see how it is necessary, since even with the foundation tool you still have to designate rooms manually (indoors or out) anyhow.

You're only assigning the room type, not whether that room is inside or outside. To be able to assign an area as, for example, a kitchen the game needs to know the area is inside.

GiantSpacePuppy wrote:Regarding the topic of this thread, instead of having yet another tool for laying a different type of foundation, I'd also strongly prefer the foundation tool to only lay a foundation to build on, nothing else. Then again I believe these are pretty much technical issues, to be solved in the beta most likely..

That's something that arguably could be done in either stage of development.

MAdMaN wrote:

GiantSpacePuppy wrote:Fair enough.. though I still don't see how it is necessary, since even with the foundation tool you still have to designate rooms manually (indoors or out) anyhow.

You're only assigning the room type, not whether that room is inside or outside. To be able to assign an area as, for example, a kitchen the game needs to know the area is inside.

Yep but by assigning the room types you are effectively telling the game what is indoors and what is not. Of course you have hallways and such with no room type, but that could be easily added. I think showers, storage, deliveries and garbage are the only room types that can be both indoors or outdoors? Offices can be outdoors right now too but I see that as more of a bug than a feature..

But sure, I can see having the foundations define indoor space adding flexibility to the room types at least. But the foundation tool definitely is kind of confusing at first right now, as it builds the walls too.