[Feature request] Fix the game

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NovaSentinel
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[Feature request] Fix the game

Postby NovaSentinel » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:58 pm

First of all:

I like the game, and i'm playing it since alpha 2 or 3. I have spend countless hours with it.

However, what i just can't get into my head: why are you adding more and more broken stuff, or break even working stuff, instead of fixing things first?

Yes it's alpha, but those obvious bugs like cloning tool, broken laundry (machines), workers clumping, dumb job assignements, pathfinding... i mean... WTF?

The AI is still as dumb as it was in alpha 1, and if i would count the changes you made/features you implemented, then i would barly need a second hand.
I have the feeling that you are already feed. You got your millions of cash, devided by 5 (with this slow pace, i doubt there are more than 5 peaple working) and now you got pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeenty of time to finish it. From my point of view, this game is done by 20% now. So a release for 2016 would be possible.

So please, take your 4 weeks and FIX stuff instead of adding new bugs/features.
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Postby lukiono » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:34 pm

The Devs said: "Every alpha will breaks the game"
alpha = add stuff, important fixes like room designating
beta = balancing, fixing everything, performance
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111none
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Re: [Feature request] Fix the game

Postby 111none » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:52 pm

NovaSentinel wrote:First of all:

I like the game, and i'm playing it since alpha 2 or 3. I have spend countless hours with it.

However, what i just can't get into my head: why are you adding more and more broken stuff, or break even working stuff, instead of fixing things first?

Yes it's alpha, but those obvious bugs like cloning tool, broken laundry (machines), workers clumping, dumb job assignements, pathfinding... i mean... WTF?

The AI is still as dumb as it was in alpha 1, and if i would count the changes you made/features you implemented, then i would barly need a second hand.
I have the feeling that you are already feed. You got your millions of cash, devided by 5 (with this slow pace, i doubt there are more than 5 peaple working) and now you got pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeenty of time to finish it. From my point of view, this game is done by 20% now. So a release for 2016 would be possible.

So please, take your 4 weeks and FIX stuff instead of adding new bugs/features.

.... Ant thou shall for-with known not thy term of "Alpha"
With the sincerest regards,
111none
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Re: [Feature request] Fix the game

Postby p0p0c4t3p3t3l » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:00 pm

NovaSentinel wrote:First of all:

I like the game, and i'm playing it since alpha 2 or 3. I have spend countless hours with it.

However, what i just can't get into my head: why are you adding more and more broken stuff, or break even working stuff, instead of fixing things first?

Yes it's alpha, but those obvious bugs like cloning tool, broken laundry (machines), workers clumping, dumb job assignements, pathfinding... i mean... WTF?

The AI is still as dumb as it was in alpha 1, and if i would count the changes you made/features you implemented, then i would barly need a second hand.
I have the feeling that you are already feed. You got your millions of cash, devided by 5 (with this slow pace, i doubt there are more than 5 peaple working) and now you got pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeenty of time to finish it. From my point of view, this game is done by 20% now. So a release for 2016 would be possible.

So please, take your 4 weeks and FIX stuff instead of adding new bugs/features.


Dude, never go full retard!!
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xander
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Re: [Feature request] Fix the game

Postby xander » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:08 am

p0p0c4t3p3t3l wrote:Dude, never go full retard!!

This, right here, is almost certainly one of the most annoying and offensive comments I see used on the internet. Misquoting and adding an "FTFY" is more annoying, and the only things that I can think of that are more offensive are racial and sexual slurs. Please, you are giving us all a bad name. Try to stay classy.

xander
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Postby p0p0c4t3p3t3l » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:24 am

I don't agree.

It just matches the tone and content of the the opening post.
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xander
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Postby xander » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:33 pm

p0p0c4t3p3t3l wrote:I don't agree.

It just matches the tone and content of the the opening post.

Since you insist upon behaving like a 13 year old boy, let me break this down for you. Your post was both annoying and offensive.

Why was your post annoying? The general goal of a forum is to enable people to engage in conversation. At the heart of any meaningful conversation is the exchange of ideas. Your comment did nothing to further this goal. You think that the original post was stupid. Fine. I agree. You didn't like the tone. Great. You are entitled to that opinion. However, you said neither of those things. You choose to do nothing except insult the original poster. You didn't explain why you disagreed, and you didn't make any attempt to engage in a conversation. You just insulted someone. That is annoying. Of course, being annoying alone is not really that big a deal. People are annoying all the time. The real issue I have is that your post was offensive.

Why was your post offensive? "Retard" is a slur that has been aimed at people with diminished mental capacity for decades. It is of a category of words that is populated by such things as "cunt," "nigger," and "kike." The difference is that the people against whom it is used often lack the capacity to defend themselves. It's like kicking a puppy. Maybe there is no one in your life who is mentally disabled, and maybe you have never seen the effect that such language can have on such people, so perhaps you are simply ignorant instead of intentionally malicious. The fact of the matter remains: your post was offensive.

Now, I understand getting defensive when someone calls you out on your behaviour, so I am going to leave it at that and disengage at this point (I fully expect that you will continue to try to justify yourself---I no longer care). However, in the future, please try to think before you post or speak. It will make you a better person.

xander
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MAdMaN
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Postby MAdMaN » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:10 pm

I take it you've never seen the movie Tropic Thunder?
p0p0c4t3p3t3l
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Postby p0p0c4t3p3t3l » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:05 pm

Thank you MadMan

@Xander
Since you insist upon behaving like deputy sheriff, let me break this down for you. Your post was both annoying and offensive.

You can't even keep the rules, you are expecting from others:

"The general goal of a forum is to enable people to engage in conversation"
"I fully expect that you will continue to try to justify yourself---I no longer care"


I really can inagine you like this:


Image
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111none
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Postby 111none » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:40 pm

p0p0c4t3p3t3l wrote:Thank you MadMan

@Xander
Since you insist upon behaving like deputy sheriff, let me break this down for you. Your post was both annoying and offensive.

You can't even keep the rules, you are expecting from others:

"The general goal of a forum is to enable people to engage in conversation"
"I fully expect that you will continue to try to justify yourself---I no longer care"


I really can inagine you like this:


Image
\
Hes a mod for a reason... stupid :roll:
With the sincerest regards,
111none
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Postby p0p0c4t3p3t3l » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:43 pm

Sry, didn't know that only Mods have the right to insult....
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Postby AgentPaper » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:54 pm

Ok, ok guys, enough poo-slinging, this isn't a zoo. Let's get back on top...

Wait, nevermind. Go back to the poo-slinging. It's more worthwhile.
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Postby NovaSentinel » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:56 pm

I knew that my post, wouldn't make me many/any fans, but i had to share my thoughts about it, since it bugged me for quite a while.

I'm a developer too, only web stuff (JAVA, PHP, Javascript,...). If i upload a version to the dev server, where our customers can get an insight of the product, i make sure that i don't break things, that have been working before. And if i find a bug, i will fix it, while i'm working on it.

Sure, those "web applications", as we name it in our company, may not be that complex, but i can't understand why very annoying and obvious problems are not getting fixed. I mean, they have to be fixed anyways, so why delay that and let the alpha testers deal with it over and over again.

Alpha 10 is "unplayable" for me. I downloaded v9 from the web, so i can still play. Yeah, i'm not supposed to play, but to test, but i haven't come across one bug, that hasn't been reported for months, or at least weeks.

Oh and i don't feel insulted or anything. If someone wants to troll, let him. Since im not nativ english, my post may have been a bit rude for you, however, i wanted to express my dissapointment of the progress and how things seem to be handled (while i'm not expecting that anything will change).

BTW: Great image :lol:
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Postby MAdMaN » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:27 pm

NovaSentinel wrote:I knew that my post, wouldn't make me many/any fans, but i had to share my thoughts about it, since it bugged me for quite a while.

I'm a developer too, only web stuff (JAVA, PHP, Javascript,...). If i upload a version to the dev server, where our customers can get an insight of the product, i make sure that i don't break things, that have been working before. And if i find a bug, i will fix it, while i'm working on it.

Sure, those "web applications", as we name it in our company, may not be that complex, but i can't understand why very annoying and obvious problems are not getting fixed. I mean, they have to be fixed anyways, so why delay that and let the alpha testers deal with it over and over again.

Identifying the cause of a problem and creating a patch for it can take a huge amount of time and, as the game is still in the alpha phase of development, spending time to develop a patch takes up time that would be better spent getting the game feature complete.

As you say, web applications (a phrase that's used by many web developers, not just your company) are vastly simpler than a computer program. With computer programs patches or new additions can have unintended consequences, so you either leave the patch and deal with the complaints about the new problems, or remove the patch and deal with the complaints about the problems the patch fixed.

We were also informed that we were buying an incomplete game, so we're likely to have less issues with a buggy product than your customers.
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Postby xander » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:35 pm

111none wrote:Hes a mod for a reason... stupid :roll:

Not a mod. I've just been around a while.

NovaSentinel wrote:--==<snip>==--

The fact that you have experience in the software development industry is admirable, but that doesn't necessarily give you insight into how the PC games industry works, how IV in particular works, or how IV have decided to run the development of this singular game.

IV have repeatedly stated that their goal is to first implement all of the features that they want to have in the final version of the game (the alpha stage of development), then try to fix bugs (the beta stage), then finally release the game.

This system actually has a certain logic to it. As long as the game is basically playable, there isn't a great deal of incentive to go bug fixing. The broken feature may ultimately be removed or significantly refactored, making the fix irrelevant, or the fix itself could create more bugs that have to be worked around or fixed as new features are introduced. While the game is in a constant state of flux, trying to squash bugs is like nailing Jell-o to the wall.

I think that the problem that a lot of people have is that they are not approaching this game with the right mindset. We are not really meant to be testing the software at this point, and we certainly are not meant to be playing a game. The way I see it, IV are developing this game in exactly the same way that they would if they were not releasing alpha versions to early supporters. As a bonus, they are releasing the occasional development snapshot so that people can see what they are up to, so that people stay interested, and so that they might get some feedback about the mechanics of the game. Essentially, if you are complaining that the game doesn't work, you are doing it wrong. Of course it doesn't work right now. And?

xander

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