[brainstorming] achievements

[fidelio]

now with the game on steam, achievements are part of their landscape. without going into whether or not cheevos are good or bad, or if you like them or not or if they'll even be implemented, we could at least arm the guys with some ideas of achievements so if nothing else, we might alleviate a few moments of brain activity to perfecting the AI systems instead of laboring over achievements.

so here's a few possibilities to get the conversation started:

woodstock: 100 days with no incidents

welcome to the south: use the fireman's hose to subdue prisoners

walk the line: prisoner population over 200 with fewer than 25 guards

concrete jungle: less than 10% dirt/grass/trees on a medium or large map

the green mile: lay 5000 squares of grass (cumulative)

vegas buffet: 5 serving tables at maximum food capacity

can you hear me now?: place 477 phones (cumulative)

miracle worker: have a nurse heal a guard to full health from less than 2%

sardines: 50 or more prisoners in a holding cell

rats!: 5 or more undiscovered tunnels

top supplier: press 15,000 license plates from any prison

on it!: end a riot in under 10 minutes

supermax: 100+ high risk prisoners only

ghost: prisoner escape in a laundry basket / find a prisoner in a laundry basket

[MAdMaN]

rats!: 5 or more undiscovered tunnels

This is the only one I have issue with. There shouldn't be anything to tell the player that something's wrong. Perhaps if it was discovered tunnels after prisoners have escaped instead.

I think one should reference the longest ever prison riot at Strangeways in 1990.

[fidelio]

yeah it's a tricky one. i reasoned against a successful escape being required as you don't want the player to be required to fail, to succeed in gaining an achievement. but just knowing there's tunnels doesn't mean you know where they are. in one of the videos chris talks about piles of dirt showing up in the yard as a sign tunnels are underway, but you still wouldn't know where they were. in the end i thought this would be similar.

[fat_wilf]

I would like for once - to have a game that DOESN'T have achievements.

[paktsardines]

+1

[TheLiege]

I would like for once - to have a game that DOESN'T have achievements.

I don't understand this attitude. I can't see them ever being a negative thing, either you like them in which case positive thing or you don't in which case surely you just ignore them they don't take anything away from the game.

I'm not trying to cause problems I just genuinely don't understand.

[MAdMaN]

I would like for once - to have a game that DOESN'T have achievements.

I don't understand this attitude. I can't see them ever being a negative thing, either you like them in which case positive thing or you don't in which case surely you just ignore them they don't take anything away from the game.

I'm not trying to cause problems I just genuinely don't understand.

They're basically an e-peen measuring system that serves no other purpose, and the pop-ups that happen when you get one take your focus away from the game.

[CplHenderson]

+1 Achievements would be a cool thing if not entirely necessary.

[fidelio]

you're completely ignoring my request to not turn this into a for/against achievements thread

after a playthrough they're interesting to look at as they may suggest parts of the game, or possibilities i hadn't thought of, or encountered during regular play, even if don't care one way or another about actually earning the achievements.
this is why achievements based on odd occurrences are far more personally interesting than those based on milestones, but some people are more goal oriented rather than experience oriented players, so both have their merit.

some developers may choose to use it as such, but there's nothing inherent in the system about measuring one player against another, so put your epeen issues away, and please return to topic.

[CplHenderson]

Unusual

proceed with caution: have 50 low risk prisoners with none in other categories

overkill: have the number of guards be 75% or more of the prison population

deadly reputation: have one riot a day for three days

clean record: no incidents in ten days with at least 30 prisoners [edit: never mind, you did that already]

shocking!: electrocute a prisoner

permanent lockdown: stay in bangup for one day

pessimistic view: place thirty morgue slabs

mole detector: foil five escape tunnels

no vacancy: stay above prisoner capacity for ten days

General gameplay

First arrivals

20 inmates

50 inmates

100 inmates

Unlock prison labour

Laundry

First riot

I'm bad at names, but I'll come up with more. Also, why 477 phones?

[paktsardines]

you're completely ignoring my request to not turn this into a for/against achievements thread

No we're not . We totally took your request into account before deciding to turn the thread into a pro/con achievement thread.

[xander]

you're completely ignoring my request to not turn this into a for/against achievements thread

Welcome to the internet. Against, by the way.

xander

[onihonker]

fidelio, I liked the idea at first of having achievements in the game except for the part where achievements are like grants with no reward in-game whatsoever. This is part where I feel like I haven't "achieved" anything overly significant.

I have this same problem with the Xbox 360's achievement system where it gives me me 2300 points for something I did in a game and it adds it to my pile of 20,000 points. Also, they are not an accurate measurement of anything; how good I am at a certain game, how much better or worse I am versus other players or even how much fun I had playing said game. Often times then not I'm "grinding" my way at some repetitive task in the name of completing an achievement and I'm not having any fun anymore.

The problems with most games I've played is achievements don't usually add any real value to the game and they often do the opposite of what they were intend to originally achieve.

Here is an article talking about Steam achievments but read the comments to get my perspective from other gamers: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/MichaelRose/20100910/5951/

I have to agree with Michael Meyer when it comes to making an opinion on achievements:
"I actually find that they make the games harder to enjoy. I'm playing something for fun, and this thing pops up and tells me I get points for it. It's like if I was hanging out with a friend and then he tried to pay me for doing so. It almost feels like an insult, you know?"

TL:DR My opinion: Achievements tend to take away from a games value and often serve no real purpose.

[HerrJoebob]

you're completely ignoring my request to not turn this into a for/against achievements thread

No we're not . We totally took your request into account before deciding to turn the thread into a pro/con achievement thread.

+1. I actually like cheevs because they give me ideas about playing the game in ways that I might not have even thought of. For instance knocking a heavy guard out of the window in Gunpoint...

[Hitobat]

I read this article a few weeks ago on achievements:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/GregMcCl ... gn_101.php

The summary (for me) is that achievements should be fun, and not a grind to complete. So parts that you cannot control well (such as healing a guard back from <2%) would be insanely annoying, as you'd have to manufacture a fight and then save the guard somehow when he was sufficiently damaged (but not dead). The other suggestions all look good however.

HerrJoeBob's point (that they can point you towards different gameplay styles) is also an example of 'good' achievements, provided they don't force you to play in a particular way to get all the achievements.