Dead staff member wages and dealing with death

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GreenGriffin
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Dead staff member wages and dealing with death

Postby GreenGriffin » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:20 pm

Hi all,

Just bought PA on Steam and as a huge fan of Dungeon Keeper, Theme Hospital, and similar titles, I'm very pleased with the game. Aside from some minor annoyances (expected in an alpha), I look forward to seeing it progress further. I'm currently working on my third prison and although it's my best yet, I have one huge problem that's crippling my income.

Things are going relatively smoothly in my small prison with 35 inmates. The prisoners seem content, although I notice plenty of suspicious behavior, so constantly order my guards to search prisoners. Knives are being stolen from the kitchen and confiscated left and right. Still, things are fairly quiet for days. Then suddenly one afternoon, a huge fight breaks out in the yard, and an inmate is stabbed to death behind some benches. The fight gains some momentum, spills over into the canteen, then quickly turns into an uprising when a guard is killed. I saw a handgun on one of the inmates, so I'm assuming he got it from the body of the dead guard. More guards come, two are quickly killed by the armed prisoners, and the bodycount continues to climb higher. There's blood and bodies everywhere, both living and dead.

After another violent clash as I continue to "warp in" newly hired guards, the uprising is finally put down. When the smoke clears, 2 inmates are dead, 2 cooks caught in the middle were killed, and a total of 6 guards lost their lives trying to put down the riot. I immediately set up a morgue, and eventually the bodies are relocated there.

Now here's the problem....I have 8 staff members dead, but every day, I'm still paying their wages! This is destroying my economy. I now have 7 living guards on my payroll, but I'm also paying the wages of the 6 dead ones as well as 2 dead cooks.

Surely it's a quick fix to have dead guards and staff members stop getting paychecks from you?

Some related suggestions:

**PLEASE** give us the option to create a prison graveyard to dispose of the dead (and as soon as possible). Each plot could be 2 tiles in size, with a couple of options; a crudely-marked grave (perhaps a mound of dirt with a wooden cross), and a more traditional grass-covered plot with a nice headstone for your brave guards who died in the line of duty. Very straight forward - zone the land, and lay down some plots. Bodies can be moved there and buried after being in the morgue for a few days. Perhaps you need to hire a medical examiner who examines the bodies in the morgue before they can be disposed of. Simple, elegant, and realistic.

- Please allow us to "mark" prisoners (perhaps add new offenses to their rap sheet) and directly punish the prisoners we witness committing violent crimes. We should be allowed to somehow designate them as dangerous, and send them to solitary confinement indefinitely. In my last prison, I had 2 super violent prisoners who caused problems nearly every day. Literally every day, one of them would wake up, destroy all of the objects in his cell causing a repair bill, start a fight in the canteen, then have a knife confiscated when he tried to return to his cell. It was irritating and very disappointing that there was nothing I could do to punish him myself, or easily keep him in isolation without having to build him an entire facility dedicated to him. After the very bloody uprising in my current prison, I feel like I have little direct control over the major troublemakers in my prison. As the owner of the prison, I feel the user should be able to directly decide the fate of the prisoners in some way.

You murdered a guard? You're going into indefinite solitary, and you won't see the light of day until I'm convinced you've learned your lesson, or you've been formally rehabilitated. Or if gangs are implemented for example, perhaps I'll place you in the prison block filled with violent gang members so they can beat you up each day in the yard. Or perhaps I build a prison chapel and assign you to seeing the prison chaplain every day, and you find religion. If you're a well behaved prisoner, I'll give you a job in one of my facilities like the laundry room. I'll also give you "perks", like better meals just for you, and various quality of life amenities in your upgraded cell. If you show yourself to be a model prisoner, maybe I'll give you time off for good behavior, and release you early.

Just some ideas, but the important thing is that a tangible system of punishment (as well as reward) would go a long way toward making this game feel like the classic "god games". I feel the more you allow us to be directly merciful or heavy handed, the more connected we will feel to our creation.

Keep up the great work! This game has wonderful potential.
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christopher1006
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Postby christopher1006 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:49 pm

I like the idea for graveyards, currently I simulate it by having morgue slabs in a field arranged like a cemetary. Also you should be able to build over a cemetary if you need room but if you don't have the bodies moved elsewhere it may cause a bit of grumbling from prisoners or guards depending whose dead body you built over.
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Postby Norton » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:00 pm

I would like for a car to come pick them up once a day or something like that
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Postby gmyx » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:05 pm

Right now you can edit you save game file to bring them back to life.
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Postby Wolfhowler » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:53 pm

gmyx wrote:Right now you can edit you save game file to bring them back to life.


I love you for this :D
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Postby Catch22 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:05 am

Why does everybody want graveyards? They don't add anything to the game. Game mechanics wise, how the heck is it different to store your corpses on slabs in the morgue rather than burial plots in a cemetary. It also seems ridiculous to me for inmates and employees to be buried AT THE PRISON. If I worked as a cook at a prison and I got shanked, do you think I would like to be buried inside the prison? Do real prisons actually do this? Would my family come to the prison to visit my grave? The morgue should be the temporary place for bodies before they're hauled to the curb to be picked up in the morning along with the garbage.

Now about the original poster's issue, I know there are saved game editors out there but I haven't used them. You might want to find one and see if you can delete your dead employees from the save.
[edit: or do what the post above said and resurrect them... and fire them]
Last edited by Catch22 on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby christopher1006 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:22 pm

Prison cemeteries are usually designed for prisoners who don't get claimed by their family. Also, the job of a morgue is not to store a body for all eternity, something has to be done with the cadaver before it rots and causes health concerns. Since not every prisoner has a family or at least a family willing to claim them you have to be able to deal with those bodies; that's where the cemeteries and maybe cremation would be useful. Some of the bodies should be picked up I agree, a mortician coming in to take the body and give it to the family would make sense. Gameplay-wise I think it would be a happiness booster, as opposed to just leaving their bleeding corpse in the morgue many prisoners would become quite a bit happier knowing they would get either a burial or cremation (the latter not everyone may be so thrilled about) because for 1 you wouldn't have a smell like no other coming from the morgue, for 2 you wouldn't have to wonder when that body will start spreading disease.
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Postby DutchJackal » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:33 pm

The morque could be ocupied by a Medical Examiner to help you solve suspicious deaths. Murders that weren't noticed by you or your guards. Sort of a seconds chance to solve a murder. And the higher the ME's experience, the better his results in determining the cause of death. How about that?

Maybe having a ME could also lower the penalty on death's in your prison. Similar to the lawyer. And having a ME could make you dispose of bodies quicker as a bonus or something.
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Postby paktsardines » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:47 pm

Whey does everybody want graveyards? They don't add anything to the game.


Well said, except for the spelling of 'whey'. But I digress. The ability to classify/reclassify prisoners as low,med and high security is already present in the game. I do think the option to 'bookmark' prisoners would be good though, so you can quickly return the the annoying ones when you need to.
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Postby Orosian » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:27 pm

I bookmark the bad ones by upgrading them to maximum security prisoners with their neato red outfits. Those who behave get a reduction in their security rank.
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Postby GreenGriffin » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:08 pm

I'm not talking about bookmarking prisoners as "high security risk". I mean being able to edit his rap sheet to include something like "suspected of murdering 2 prison guards", or "waits every day outside the kitchen to steal a knife", or "stabbed a cook at breakfast". I can document bad behavior so I can keep tabs on their history in my prison, and treat them accordingly. Right now I feel like all I can do is passively watch the inmates hurting each other and trying to kill my staff. I watch an inmate kill one of my guards, and I can't directly punish him?

Plus, the reason we want graveyards is because there is no other way to dispose of the dead. If so many people are asking for it, it might actually be a good idea. Having a "Potter's Field" mechanic available in the game for unclaimed bodies would be a terrific addition. I already suggested the medical examiner as a possibility, perhaps that can be explored as an alternative.

Come up with a better mechanic that makes sense, and I'm all ears. Until then, a graveyard is needed.
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Postby Orosian » Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:58 pm

Perhaps a warden's journal where we could make notes of anything which catches our eye?
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Postby GreenGriffin » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:01 pm

Yes exactly, they're my own (or the warden's) notes.

As long as I have the log entries I'm suggesting available to read on the inmate when I click on him.
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Postby vulgarman » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:33 pm

I, for one, look for topics already posted. Here we are, at the dead! Necro the thread.
Set damage to Zee-Ro!

GreenGriffin wrote:I'm not talking about bookmarking prisoners as "high security risk". I mean being able to edit his rap sheet to include something like "suspected of murdering 2 prison guards", or "waits every day outside the kitchen to steal a knife", or "stabbed a cook at breakfast". I can document bad behavior so I can keep tabs on their history in my prison, and treat them accordingly. Right now I feel like all I can do is passively watch the inmates hurting each other and trying to kill my staff. I watch an inmate kill one of my guards, and I can't directly punish him?


If you mouse over the killer, does his info have a =misbehavior= field with Murder in it? Some of mine do, but 30 people will die, and only 1/2 dozen or so are accounted for in the misbehavior.

GreenGriffin wrote:Plus, the reason we want graveyards is because there is no other way to dispose of the dead. If so many people are asking for it, it might actually be a good idea. Having a "Potter's Field" mechanic available in the game for unclaimed bodies would be a terrific addition. I already suggested the medical examiner as a possibility, perhaps that can be explored as an alternative.


I go into the save game file and turn them into trash bags. Dismantle the morgue slab, and away they go! I want them out on the garbage grid in body bags. Renamed to "Shipping" or "Exports" because then it's multipurpose.

GreenGriffin wrote:Come up with a better mechanic that makes sense, and I'm all ears. Until then, a graveyard is needed.


Two choices: (You mentioned both, already. )
Mortician. Black Hat.
Coroner. White Hat.

Coroner, all bodies are dutifully accounted for, legal is involved, the state, whoever. They're shipped out to wherever for a thorough examine off premises. Pragmatic, because it saves space, but probably costs some dough.

Mortician, in rural work camps before the internet, sometimes prisoners weren't sure if another guy escaped, or was caught, killed and buried near by. Before the information age, prisoners might just disappear. It happened at during the 50's-60's at a Home for Troubled boys here in Florida, about 2 dozen kids buried on site. If it still happens today, you don't hear about it, but that's the point. Unmarked graves, anyone? :twisted:

Third option, burn them! :)
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Postby shenanigans » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:33 am

They just need to add an incinerator object to the morgue to dispose of the corpses. :P

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