Lockdown circumvented by guard's keys

(previously 'DEVELOPER') Private forum for registered community members. To register, please visit www.prison-architect.com/register.

Moderator: NBJeff

DutchJackal
level1
level1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:18 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Lockdown circumvented by guard's keys

Postby DutchJackal » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:22 am

I just witnessed something I'm still quite processing and wanted to share with you:
I was running a nice little prison with min.sec inmates... until I decided to allow max.sec inmates. I build a separate facility for them, placed some extra doors etc and thought I was safe. But then...

In the yard, the max.sec inmates started fighting and knocked a guard unconscious after which one inmate stole this guard's keys and opened the door from the yard to a central corridor. From this corridor the shortest way out was through 2 big jail doors and 2 staff doors enclosing 2 'staff-only' zones. As soon as I noticed what was going on, I threw my prison into lockdown, sealing all doors, just to witness the inmate unlock them all manually with the guard's keys, crossing the 2 'staff-only' zones and running into freedom while my guards were unable to open any of the doors they encountered because of the lockdown!

I then ran a little test and noticed that, when in lockdown, guards are only able to open doors when you manually direct them to a place behind that door. If they have to open a door because of an automated task (escorting prisoner, opening a door for other staff or in this case chasing an escaping inmate) they will just wait in front of door until lockdown is ended.

I'll see if this bug is already submitted and I'm sure it will be fixed between today and the final build but in the mean time, be warned that nothing seems to be able to stop a prisoner who obtained a guard's key chain!
User avatar
christopher1006
level5
level5
Posts: 1019
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:01 pm

Postby christopher1006 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:08 am

I don't think this is a bug, lockdown closes all the doors but it doesn't mean they can't but unlocked for a short time. It seems like that would be there so that your guards can actually reach the prisoner and not be trapped in their own zone.
User avatar
namj13
level2
level2
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:56 am

Overide

Postby namj13 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:24 am

The doors autolock, and can be manually overridden. The prisoner automatically overrides all the doors to escape, whereas the guards will stay put, to prevent them from being injured in whatever fight occurred, and allowing all the doors to close as directed.
--Namj13
christhekiller
level3
level3
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:34 am

Postby christhekiller » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:18 am

I have a guard dedicated to the entrance. If shit hits the fan then he'll be able to slow them down, if not stop them while other guards come to back him up.


That being said I never really have a hard time with prisoners. My prison atm is still pretty small but I rarely have incidents. I'm able to get contraband out of the hands of incoming prisoners fairly quickly. One time someone had keys and another prisoners snatched them when the guard threw the keys on the ground after locking up the newbie. And that prisoner tried to make for the nearest (only) exit, at which point he was promptly beaten by 3 guards.

My point is most of the prisoners dont start shit :)
DutchJackal
level1
level1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:18 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby DutchJackal » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:09 am

christopher1006 wrote:I don't think this is a bug, lockdown closes all the doors but it doesn't mean they can't but unlocked for a short time. It seems like that would be there so that your guards can actually reach the prisoner and not be trapped in their own zone.

That's correct. But I do believe that when a prisoner is making a run for it by unlocking all the doors manually, your guards should be able to manually unlock those doors as well. My point is that because of the lockdown, I actually made it easier for the escaping inmate because I was trapping my guards rather then the inmate.

christhekiller wrote:I have a guard dedicated to the entrance. If shit hits the fan then he'll be able to slow them down, if not stop them while other guards come to back him up.


That being said I never really have a hard time with prisoners. My prison atm is still pretty small but I rarely have incidents. I'm able to get contraband out of the hands of incoming prisoners fairly quickly. One time someone had keys and another prisoners snatched them when the guard threw the keys on the ground after locking up the newbie. And that prisoner tried to make for the nearest (only) exit, at which point he was promptly beaten by 3 guards.

My point is most of the prisoners dont start shit :)


I have a guard as well watching the entrance and I have a guard patrolling the deliveries but the inmate just ran past them!
Indeed, most prisoners behave well. My min.sec don't even complain and rarely show a certain need.
User avatar
Chris
Introversion Staff
Introversion Staff
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 7:28 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Postby Chris » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:46 pm

This is precisely what should happen!

During a lockdown your Guards won't open doors unless you explicitly tell them too - you are saying "Close all doors, nobody goes anywhere". You can manually tell guards to go somewhere, and of course they can do so because they have jail keys with them. So if they have their jail keys stolen off them, the prisoners will be able to open doors as well.

During a lockdown you are expected to manually position your guards to deal with whatever is happening. I suggest several in the entrance.
DutchJackal
level1
level1
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:18 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby DutchJackal » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:22 pm

Chris wrote:This is precisely what should happen!

During a lockdown your Guards won't open doors unless you explicitly tell them too - you are saying "Close all doors, nobody goes anywhere". You can manually tell guards to go somewhere, and of course they can do so because they have jail keys with them. So if they have their jail keys stolen off them, the prisoners will be able to open doors as well.

During a lockdown you are expected to manually position your guards to deal with whatever is happening. I suggest several in the entrance.


Hi Chris,

Thanks for the enlightenment! :D
I'll keep this in mind next time someone makes a run for it!
User avatar
_alphaBeta_
level4
level4
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:20 pm
Location: NJ, USA

Postby _alphaBeta_ » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:28 pm

Yes, I'm aware this thread is old and was in the context of many alpha revisions ago. My comments are still much related.

I've included a screenshot of a chart outlining the three current behaviors I see. Keep in mind the authority column lists "guards keys" implying a prisoner with said keys has the same authority. That's an assumption based on other posts in this thread. I don't have a good save with a prisoner escaping to test at the moment.

Image
The first behavior is setting a door to "DoorModeLockedShut" (by clicking the individual door and selecting this option). In this case, no one, not even the player can open doors. It would seem the solution to escaping prisoners would be to set the front door to this in the interim. But I feel this micromanagement should not be necessary.

The second behavior is a door set to "DoorModeLockedShut" when a lockdown is active. The only difference is the player is able to open the door. It's probably a bug that the lockdown overrides the strict setting of the "DoorModeLockedShut" and the fact that it stays open.

The third is a straight lockdown on a door not set to "DoorModeLockedShut." In this case, guards can open doors, but only seem to do so when explicitly ordered to move beyond the door. Guards will also avoid opening the door if another path exists.

Quick side note: I'm thinking "DoorModeLockedShut" and lockdown door icons should be different as it's quite confusing which doors have which functions, especially if you have an escape on your hands. Does lockdown even need to change the icons (besides removing the "DoorModeLockedOpen" icon)? We already have the blinking lockdown icon and alarm noise to remind us. An alternative would be to make them behave the same, but I suppose that could stop the player from ensuring a door stays closed no matter what. For realism purposes, unless it's an electronic door, I'm not sure how the player would be able to nullify keys in a physical door within seconds, but that's another discussion.

I've added two additional lockdown options, which could also apply to "DoorModeLockedShut" doors if they're merged.

They allow guards or guards and staff to open doors during an "emergency." An "emergency" could mean a riot, fire, escape in progress etc., and would need to be established. If implemented, this would have to be done carefully since the guard should weight the following risks before responding:
  1. Will opening this door allow prisoners to run through the door before it closes?
  2. Is there already enough guard coverage in this room or the vicinity if I leave? This is assuming there's prisoners even in the room or vicinity. This option also ties in to how guards respond to other guards in trouble, and what the plan is regarding this.
One could also create more columns in this chart to separate the staff functions further. If there are suggestions, I'll add to it.
dc4bs
level1
level1
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:00 am

Postby dc4bs » Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:03 am

_alphaBeta_ wrote:For realism purposes, unless it's an electronic door, I'm not sure how the player would be able to nullify keys in a physical door within seconds, but that's another discussion.


The handy tube of Crazy Glue that all of my guards are required to carry? "Holds this prisoner suspended in air!"
User avatar
111none
level4
level4
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:32 am
Location: Wangjing, Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

Re:

Postby 111none » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:32 pm

dc4bs wrote:
_alphaBeta_ wrote:For realism purposes, unless it's an electronic door, I'm not sure how the player would be able to nullify keys in a physical door within seconds, but that's another discussion.


The handy tube of Crazy Glue that all of my guards are required to carry? "Holds this prisoner suspended in air!"

I got t'em toothpicks!!!!

Return to “Community Members”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests