source ode for alpha?

(previously 'DEVELOPER') Private forum for registered community members. To register, please visit www.prison-architect.com/register.

Moderator: NBJeff

Lance_Lake
level1
level1
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:15 pm

Postby Lance_Lake » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:03 pm

Causeless wrote:Alpha code isn't the same as "spaghetti" or "stupid" code. If all the code you write in an alpha game is so bad, then you've done something wrong.


You Sir, are no programmer.
User avatar
paktsardines
level5
level5
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am
Location: Australia

Postby paktsardines » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:38 pm

He may not be, but that doesn't mean what he said is incorrect. If, after reading this thread, you still think that alpha code is spaghetti code, or that spaghetti code is inevitable, then you are no programmer either (or not a particularly good one at any rate).
User avatar
111none
level4
level4
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:32 am
Location: Wangjing, Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

Postby 111none » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:36 pm

Guys this was not what my op meant..........
With the sincerest regards,
111none
User avatar
christopher1006
level5
level5
Posts: 1019
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:01 pm

Postby christopher1006 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:11 am

Getting back to the point I would personally like to see this. Perhaps create a poll on this thread or a new one designed specifically for it to see how many people would be willing to upgrade to actually get the source code package.
Yes, that is a penguin with rabies. Deal with it.
User avatar
111none
level4
level4
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:32 am
Location: Wangjing, Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

Postby 111none » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:22 am

With the sincerest regards,
111none
Parker22
level2
level2
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:23 pm
Location: London

Postby Parker22 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:46 am

I'll pass thanks. I think we should be concentrating on making one good game, that appeals to one end result, and we should be looking at the feel, gameplay, balance, and appearance.

If everyone starts customising it to what they want, that goes straight out the window. Not at this stage. Adding a their for it would lose control of it as well...

Gotta keep thinking about the final game, as a group
Causeless
level2
level2
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:49 pm

Postby Causeless » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:58 pm

Lance_Lake wrote:
Causeless wrote:Alpha code isn't the same as "spaghetti" or "stupid" code. If all the code you write in an alpha game is so bad, then you've done something wrong.


You Sir, are no programmer.


A prototype game, sure, can have quick, dirty and disposable code, since you'll probably be starting over with it when wanting to make a proper game. The same does not always apply to an alpha, which by definition must be expandable and usable.
lunaticneko
level2
level2
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:41 pm
Contact:

Postby lunaticneko » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:39 am

I want this feature. Actually, watching code being developed IS a good learning experience. It's extremely rare to see a commercial game's source code change with each release. You can see how features correspond with each part of code, how everything's working together, what libraries are used, and even what techniques the developers used.

Regarding "alpha is spaghetti": If you know software design, you will know spaghetti is usually a no-no in any software and any development stage. Actually, you have to write code properly from the very beginning. There's also process control and everything that makes work efficient.
User avatar
111none
level4
level4
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:32 am
Location: Wangjing, Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

Postby 111none » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:51 am

I want to see Chris's idea.
With the sincerest regards,
111none
Dybing
level1
level1
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:16 am

Postby Dybing » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:18 pm

Ah the good old days of programming on the ZX Spectrum. Calling it spaghetti-code is doing spaghetti a disservice. More like ramen-noodles code. Very messy and not all that good, but got the job done - to a degree. :D

Of course, back then one did not have fancy stuff like functions, objects or data-structures. One had numbered lines, and no need to declare variables whatsoever.

Yes, I dabble in programming myself. Nothing fancy, just simple tools like lens-calculator for projectors, calibration and testing of modular LED screens and such. And it all comes down to good practices and planning. And extensive use of comments explaining what a function is supposed to accomplish in pseudo-code, done before the actual code is even written. A great help with debugging.

So no, a project do not start as an unholy mess of code and from there is transformed from a turd into polished works of elegance. It is not like making a sculpture where you slap clay together into a lump and then go on refining it. It is more like modern ship-building. Start off as a framework, and then bolt on more or less finished self-contained modules. Or at least, that is how I do it :)
Warbird
level1
level1
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:10 am

Postby Warbird » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:20 am

BL4DE wrote:When a programmer is forced to make the code look absolutely clean and clear all the time that lengthens the time of development drastically.


If you're a new or bad programmer, then this is true. However, professionals use programming techniques such as Camel Casing and others to ensure that code is always legible both to themselves and anyone having to maintain the code down the line. Most companies have base styles of programming (spacing, casing, commenting, variable names, ect) that are enforced in order to ensure that code is legible. These techniques become second nature and take little to no time to implement. They by no means completely eliminate sloppy/spaghetti code, but they do cull it drastically. With proper planning such as IPO charts and other utilities, early versions of code stand a fair chance of being pretty functional and legible. It all really comes down to the level of experience of the programmer. A sloppy programmer is a jobless programmer. One other note on

I've seen some of the code for this game, the guys are not sloppy by any stretch of the imagination. I barely know LUA and I was able to interpret what was meant in the code. I even was able to make a minor experimental mod messing with grants.

BL4DE wrote:Writing mods to an unfinished game is stupid.


I wholly disagree with this on nearly every level. However, as you said, that is your opinion and I won't try to sway you. Allow me to say this though: Coding for coding's sake is what separates the men from the boys in this line of work.

If I may ask, do you have any background in programming? (Please don't misconstrue this as a passive-aggressive jab, I legitimately wish to know where you're coming from on this.)

Dybing wrote:And it all comes down to good practices and planning. And extensive use of comments explaining what a function is supposed to accomplish in pseudo-code, done before the actual code is even written. A great help with debugging.

So no, a project do not start as an unholy mess of code and from there is transformed from a turd into polished works of elegance. It is not like making a sculpture where you slap clay together into a lump and then go on refining it. It is more like modern ship-building. Start off as a framework, and then bolt on more or less finished self-contained modules. Or at least, that is how I do it :)


This guy knows what he's talking about.


On a more on topic note, I would like to see the source code provided for various reasons. That being said, I really doubt we'll be seeing it anytime soon.
User avatar
christopher1006
level5
level5
Posts: 1019
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:01 pm

Postby christopher1006 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:56 pm

Perhaps the source code will be given at retail with the options to have aditional copies of the code from different alphas and betas to see how the code had evolved if you're interested in such things.
DHKold
level1
level1
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:29 am

Postby DHKold » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:49 pm

Dybing wrote:Of course, back then one did not have fancy stuff like functions, objects or data-structures. One had numbered lines, and no need to declare variables whatsoever.

For what I saw, the ZX Spectrum is from 1982. There were at this time a lot of programming languages already, most of these having variables and functions :p
Dybing
level1
level1
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:16 am

Postby Dybing » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:52 pm

DHKold wrote:For what I saw, the ZX Spectrum is from 1982. There were at this time a lot of programming languages already, most of these having variables and functions :p
Well, yes. But the choices was somewhat limited on the ZX Spectrum. You had the BASIC interpreter, and you could get an assembler compiler. And that was about it. On more complex computers, found in business and education/research a plethora of various languages was available. But your average 9-10 year old computer enthusiast did not usually have any access to these :)

Return to “Community Members”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest