Alpha 7, opinions?

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AMV
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Re: Changes for Alpha 7

Postby AMV » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:06 am

HelghastLV wrote:I do like the fact that you can now set areas for min sec, and max sec, but the prisoners dont stay in those areas or out of un designited areas. I want to keep my min and max segrigated, or maybe having the ability to have max sec on a diferent regimen then the min sec. There is no way to keepthem away from one another, and having more violent criminals gives no rewards. I find myself with one main gen pop area and adding a cell here or there.

Also would like to be able to send constant complaining prisoners to solitary for a time i decide so if they dont like the schedule they wont incite a riot with other prisoners.


The segregation is still a little broken at the moment, and the reward structure hasn't been put into place yet. It will, just give it some patience. Plenty more to work on before then.

I do support the option for solitary as well though.

______


Personally, like a few others have said, I have had to make 'weak link' rat tunnels for workers and such. The kitchen is now against a store-room which near/facing the road with a direct line to it.

I would prefer the option of have 'level' doors like 1 - 5, with 1 being all access and 5 being sealed/guards only.

I'll work with what is there though, because at least now it makes more sense than what it did before.
phoenixca
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Re: Changes for Alpha 7

Postby phoenixca » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:56 am

HelghastLV wrote:I do like the fact that you can now set areas for min sec, and max sec, but the prisoners dont stay in those areas or out of un designited areas. I want to keep my min and max segrigated, or maybe having the ability to have max sec on a diferent regimen then the min sec. There is no way to keepthem away from one another, and having more violent criminals gives no rewards. I find myself with one main gen pop area and adding a cell here or there.

Also would like to be able to send constant complaining prisoners to solitary for a time i decide so if they dont like the schedule they wont incite a riot with other prisoners.


If you want to keep them segregated, build totally separate wings, with a staff only area in between. Prisoner AI won't path through any staff only areas, ever (greatly over-powered and will be changed in future, but for now, that's how it is).

Chris said in one of the alpha videos introducing MinSec, MaxSec, and Staff Only zones that they do not restrict anything other than where they sleep, yet. At least I think he said yet. Anyway, I got the impression that he meant that using that zoning for any room (like how Staff Only works) would be implemented eventually. Just have to wait.

As for not getting anything extra for MaxSec prisoners, chalk that up to balancing, which we shouldn't really expect a lot of until more important features are in place. I'm not holding my breath for it, at any rate. Need more money? Change it in the savegame file. :)
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Postby PrincessJane » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:54 am

Most aggravating is that the guards randomly run around "unlocking" wood doors, talk about wasting time. I now have only 2 jail doors for the entrance with a single guard stationed between the two, works great.

Update seems to have broken guards. Guards no longer remove prisoners from solitary when their time is up and they don't bring injured people to the medical ward. It's a total pain to have to manually move people after a fight breaks out.

I do like the more randomly aggressive prisoners. I had a prison that had not had a single incident when I added 8 of the "new" inmates. They orginized an escape attempt that resulted in 1 getting out and 6 seriously injured.
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Postby Amalasan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:22 pm

The doors are now a complete pain in the ass for workers. Very tedious. And cooks too.

In fact I got myself into a bottleneck where all the workers were stuck at one large door and no guards would go over to open it. Total halt to building. I had to knock out a wall and hire a new construction worker to make the place work again.

Even when it is working properly it meant that the guard was having to go over every few seconds tot he main gate to let construction workers through.

Real jails have some kind of security check on the way in, and then staff are free to go about their business mostly without bother.
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Postby PrincessJane » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:36 pm

Amalasan wrote:The doors are now a complete pain in the ass for workers. Very tedious. And cooks too.

In fact I got myself into a bottleneck where all the workers were stuck at one large door and no guards would go over to open it. Total halt to building. I had to knock out a wall and hire a new construction worker to make the place work again.

Even when it is working properly it meant that the guard was having to go over every few seconds tot he main gate to let construction workers through.

Real jails have some kind of security check on the way in, and then staff are free to go about their business mostly without bother.


That's how my prison is set-up... use prison doors for exterior entrances and the normal wood door for everything that is not a cell.
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Postby Wakey » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:51 pm

It's alright. As long as they build on it.
I'd like to see control rooms that could open the doors remotely. Like if a camera covers a door, the guy at the control panel could open the door.
Right now I'm having a hard time keeping the money coming in. Either you pay a s*** load for guards or you watch your whole prison almost constantly locked down.
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Postby LennyLeak » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:35 pm

Wakey wrote:I'd like to see control rooms that could open the doors remotely. Like if a camera covers a door, the guy at the control panel could open the door.

I would really like to see this as well. This combined with a more detailed key system would be awesome.
me_54m
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Postby me_54m » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:25 pm

Amalasan wrote:The doors are now a complete pain in the ass for workers. Very tedious. And cooks too.

In fact I got myself into a bottleneck where all the workers were stuck at one large door and no guards would go over to open it. Total halt to building. I had to knock out a wall and hire a new construction worker to make the place work again.

Even when it is working properly it meant that the guard was having to go over every few seconds tot he main gate to let construction workers through.

Real jails have some kind of security check on the way in, and then staff are free to go about their business mostly without bother.


Yeah I had a similar problem - I think workers should be able to open doors - if they can remove a door, unlocking it should not be a problem! :lol:

Also in a fire guards wont open doors near to the fire, because 'its too dangerous' so any staff members or prisoners who happen to be at that door perish, if you don't manually open the door.
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Changes for alpha 7

Postby Gingmax » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:54 pm

Stationed guards are useless at opening doors, I have one pacing the two steps between the kitchen and canteen but will he open the door for the cooks? Ah but he will for a prisoner!? I like the staff clearance idea or staff zoning.

Also the new top of screen display has removed the cctv info, I can't find it anywhere, please put that back, I lose count of how many cameras I have!

One more thing why are the non security doors more expensive?
Citizen
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Re: Changes for alpha 7

Postby Citizen » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:59 pm

Gingmax wrote:One more thing why are the non security doors more expensive?


I don't think Chris does game balance at this point. He puts in new features, breaks old ones and keeps going.
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Re: Changes for alpha 7

Postby Gingmax » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:08 pm

Citizen wrote:
Gingmax wrote:One more thing why are the non security doors more expensive?


I don't think Chris does game balance at this point. He puts in new features, breaks old ones and keeps going.


Amen to that! :D
rsdworker
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Postby rsdworker » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:00 pm

i suggest a quick patch to put some additon like emergency exit doors - ones with panic bar - its commonly found around in low risk buildings eg low risk prisoners - other one is secured door - only unlocks when fire alarm sounds - can be connected to fire system for realism - when no fire - the secured door will opened by guards passing through or staff - this one found in very secure places

the doors settings needs changed back to have 5 options - this was found in Alpha 2 which had working locking doors

1: Unlocked - everyone can enter or exit
2: Locked - guards unlock this door to gain access (formerly staff access)
3: Blocked - no access either side - useful for separation

i had idea - a level of secuirty as well - both can be combined

level 1 - Unlocked - anyone can enter or exit
Level 2 - Unlocked but Locked in night
Level 3 - Locked during day but unlocked in Night
Level 4 - Locked all times
Level 5 - Locked to everyone except guards and staff

also if fire breaks out when doors are locked - a option could applied to emergency exits and fire doors

emergency exit doors (panic bar and secure door)
1: Emergency only - door will not open in normal operation - only opened by prisoners or guards if they hear fire alarm or riot alarm but mischief prisoners may open this door if they feel wanting to escape - fit door alarm to deter the escapees
2: Evacuation only - doors will open upon guard pressed alarm - fire or riot requires connection to alarm system
3: Unlocked - door can be used in normal operation also in emergency
4: door alarm - enable or disable for specific door

Fire doors - fire prevention doors

1: doors held open by magnets - this can be closed when fire alarm sounds
2: doors held open by magnets only close when night time or fire alarm
3: Doors closed - doors can be shut to prevent fires spread but does not lock
4: Doors locked - doors locked but openable when guard/staff unlocks them
Citizen
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Postby Citizen » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:01 am

I think we've all been spoiled with "easy street" doors. It's time to be prison architects and realize that barred jail doors need to be locked and only the guards can open them. If you want easy access then use the $300 office door.
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:37 am

Huzzah!

Bunch of cry babies the lot of 'em!
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Postby RMJ1984 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:45 am

I think its awesome that the depth and complexity is starting to be added to the game.

There has to be some trade offs, like your not suppoed to be able to do the doors 100% perfect.

There has to be some risks. like say Wood door could be locked, but they could easily be lockpicked or something it allows for later near the release to balance the game out, so we have to balance cost of doors and such, do i want expensive guard door, or some cheap wooden door, or maybe a wood door with strong lock but again can be lockpicked.

The game is obviously gonna be a sort of a mess until all the features are added to the game, and then start to weak and balance them out, for fun, gameplay and depth.

I still hope there will be more tier doors, like say you have a Wood door thats just average, then you could have a jaildoor and maybe even a high security door which would require handprint or whatever, it would be more expensive, but again the down side of the high tech door is that not only is it expensive, but it could be hacked by those prisoners who would be computer experts


I still have this vision for the game that you start out making a basic prison for basic prisoners but over time "to keep the gameplay fun and fresh" you could take more dangerous prisoners for more money, this you would evolve from this basic prison with wood doors and jail doors, to high security prison, with lasers, high tech face print doors security cameras and what not.

Ofcrouse these more dangerous and smarter prisoners would then find ways to break out and cause problems. but ofcourse this is something that will happen way way later in development if they want something like this.

Just seems like many of the ideas for that other game they were making could fit here in the later stages.

Kinda like simcity you start with basic town and go up to Metropolis. this game needs the same, to keep it fresh and fun while playing.

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