Killzones

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christopher1006
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Postby christopher1006 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:24 pm

111none wrote:
christopher1006 wrote:When I was reading your discussions about effectiveness of rubber rounds it made me think of another non-lethal weapon I hadn't thought of in awhile.

It's called the Active Denial System, not very self explanatory but from the first paragraph that I read it gave a fair description of it. Currently it's military but LAPD wants to use it in their prisons at least from the time of when that article was written.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System

not to be offensive, but these things cost millions

As does practically everything the US buys, might as well purchase something that's actually worth that amount.
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111none
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Postby 111none » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:54 pm

.... This is why we are in debt.....
With the sincerest regards,
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BL4DE
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Postby BL4DE » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:35 pm

111none wrote:.... This is why we are in debt.....


And constantly are, negating the fact that the US of A will ever be in such a shameful state as being broke....


@topic
I would love to see advanced means to stop a prisoner from doing something he shall not do.
A Prisoner beating up other prisoners and staff? Taser or Tranquilizer Dart.
A Prisoner dug a tunnel out of his cell into the yard, preparing to make a run for it? Rubber bullets from watchtowers.
A gang of prisoners already overcome the guards inside the building, armed with guns and shooting everybody in their way to freedom? Shoot!

There are multiple things to consider what to do with which prisoner in what circumstance. Including threat they pose to themselves and others, what he is capable of, what tools he has ...
A 'killzone' might sound a bit harsh but as a general rule of thumb:
Watch the dresses the prisoners enter the prison.
You don't want a MinSec Prisoner outside the prison. But if he runs for it there's nothing to be helped other than call the police to inform them that a Prisoner just has escaped.
You don't want a MaxSec Prisoner outside the prison. His dress is red, so he is constantly aware of dire consequences when he tries to escape...

Lethal Force has to be the very last option when something goes terribly wrong. Ever.
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Postby phoenixca » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:42 pm

BL4DE wrote:Lethal Force has to be the very last option when something goes terribly wrong. Ever.


Should be, but I think years of blowing virtual humans to bits at the slightest whim (even in games where the player is supposed to be a member of law enforcement, like LA Noire), has muddled people's expectations somewhat as to what should be in a game.
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Postby orangetayo » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:23 pm

thepope229 wrote:idk about prison in for the british im a american i live in america, im thinking this over and i believe that rubber bullets or something would be better instead of killing. But yea you know you guys get pissy when there is a killzone but the electric for deathrow inmates nope thats not bad at all. hypocrites.


this is simply not true. in very rare instances, live ammunition has been used against inmates for various reasons, none of which are because they crossed into a fabled 'kill zone'.
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Postby TheKazz » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:43 pm

[quote="christopher1006"]Because the moment that we release them they'll either be sent to an asylum or will go on a killing spree and end up back at the same place?[/quote]

You mean just like a good 75% of them do any way? Granted no everyone that goes to prison is a deranged criminal and some just made a bad choice but the vast majority of CRIMINALS in prison are there because they are messed in the head. Not to mention that half of the people that did just make a bad choice that aren't "evil" people when they go in have to resort to lieing, cheating, stealing, and/or joining gangs just to survive in prison and so by the time they get out they are just as bad as the people on deathrow.

/endrant

Next to address the OP I think having snipers would be a great idea but I think it should be implemented very carefully like others have said its our job to maintain the prisoners not kill them. I would first make it a multi-step prossess to determine whether or not the sniper takes the shot. First certain conditions have to be met like the prisoner must be trying to excape, next you must be in lock down, there must not be a gaurd with in x sqares of the prisoner, the prisoner must be in a designated "no entry zone", and of course the sniper must be in range with clear line of sight. Finally if all of the above conditions are met then a pop up will appear on the screen asking if you want to take the shot or not. If you answer yes then the sniper takes the shot (but he might miss.)

Either way if you decide to use leathal force or not their will be leagal ramifcations for your actions. The severity of those ramifcations depend on if you killed him or not, how the prisoner was even allowed to make his excape attempt, the crimes the prisoner commited during the excape, and what the prisoner was origanally convicted of.

For example if your prisoner was convicted of multiple counts of murder and manslaughter, he killed 2 gaurds and stole their keys, and you chose to kill him during his excape attempt you will actually receive a lesser penalty that if you just let him excape. But if it were a prisoner that had a few pety crimes like pickpocketing, and assault and he was allowed to excape because you had an unsecure door. You would receive a much greater penalty for killing him then you would for letting him excape.

Note that either way you are going to get a penalty kill or not but it is your responsabilty to make the best of the situation one way or the other.

Next on the discussion of rubber bullets they are called "less Lethal" for a reason. It was a big law suit where some Riot Police were using "Non-Lethal" ammunition and riot control weapons and ended up killing half a dozen civilians. The officers were charged with murder and the police department sued the company that made the so called "non-lethal" ammunition for faulsely advertizing thier product and the owners of said company where convicted of unintentional man slaughter or some such non-sence. Morle of the story is that just because something is dubbed "less lethal" doesn't mean it can't kill you.
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Postby BikeMan » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:38 pm

I want guard towers, and I want snipers. I also want to be able to designate kill zones. Other people do not want this. I have an insane and radical idea on how to please both sides of the issue. PUT THAT STUFF IN THE GAME AND PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT IT, DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.

You want non lethal rubber bullets that spray a whiff of lavender upon impact? Fine use those. I can go with lethal options. It's as simple as not using the tools you don't like. Don't try and limit everyone else's toolset because you don't like the way they want to handle a situation.

As a side note, I also want the option to be corrupt as all hell, like the Warden in Shawshank Redemption. If I want to allow guards to beat a man to death because he knows too much about the money laundering I have been doing through the library donation funds, then that would be a neat optional path to go down. The next play through I might want to add bounty soft to the prison laundry detergent so my inmates are comfy right before I serve first class lasagna for lunch.

The more open the game is to diverse play styles, the more WE ALL WIN. More open, more appeal.
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christopher1006
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Postby christopher1006 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:20 pm

BikeMan wrote:I want guard towers, and I want snipers. I also want to be able to designate kill zones. Other people do not want this. I have an insane and radical idea on how to please both sides of the issue. PUT THAT STUFF IN THE GAME AND PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT IT, DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.

You want non lethal rubber bullets that spray a whiff of lavender upon impact? Fine use those. I can go with lethal options. It's as simple as not using the tools you don't like. Don't try and limit everyone else's toolset because you don't like the way they want to handle a situation.

As a side note, I also want the option to be corrupt as all hell, like the Warden in Shawshank Redemption. If I want to allow guards to beat a man to death because he knows too much about the money laundering I have been doing through the library donation funds, then that would be a neat optional path to go down. The next play through I might want to add bounty soft to the prison laundry detergent so my inmates are comfy right before I serve first class lasagna for lunch.

The more open the game is to diverse play styles, the more WE ALL WIN. More open, more appeal.


From how I've seen people respond you're not alone in that want of having options be options. The main point of many arguments in these many times leans towards what options should we have and why that's better than using a single thing that everyone would have to use. For example in the argument that preceded this page about lethal vs. non-lethal I'm fine with seeing lethal force used in the game, heck I'll probably try it in one of my prisons I designate as "hell-hole", but I think that we should be given options much in the same way that you do for anyone who would like to have what they believe in real life in game as well and if anything will give more things to do.
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Postby Parker22 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:54 pm

BikeMan wrote:I want guard towers, and I want snipers. I also want to be able to designate kill zones. Other people do not want this. I have an insane and radical idea on how to please both sides of the issue. PUT THAT STUFF IN THE GAME AND PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT IT, DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.

You want non lethal rubber bullets that spray a whiff of lavender upon impact? Fine use those. I can go with lethal options. It's as simple as not using the tools you don't like. Don't try and limit everyone else's toolset because you don't like the way they want to handle a situation.

As a side note, I also want the option to be corrupt as all hell, like the Warden in Shawshank Redemption. If I want to allow guards to beat a man to death because he knows too much about the money laundering I have been doing through the library donation funds, then that would be a neat optional path to go down. The next play through I might want to add bounty soft to the prison laundry detergent so my inmates are comfy right before I serve first class lasagna for lunch.

The more open the game is to diverse play styles, the more WE ALL WIN. More open, more appeal.


:D

Let me guess - gold plated taps for the wardens 'office' as well yeah? hehe
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Postby Neddleson » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:26 pm

I think that if snipers were implemented in the game they would be much too overpowered. I think a better idea would be to have K9 units that are faster than guards and would slow down or attack the fleeing prisoner until the guards could catch up with the prisoner and make an arrest or until tthe dogs make them unconscious.

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