Killzones

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Toast_Burner
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Postby Toast_Burner » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:25 pm

beekay wrote:
thepope229 wrote:idk about prison in for the british im a american i live in america, im thinking this over and i believe that rubber bullets or something would be better instead of killing. But yea you know you guys get pissy when there is a killzone but the electric for deathrow inmates nope thats not bad at all. hypocrites.

The British are internationally famous for their love of the death penalty, so yes, absolutely right that they're hypocrites. On the nose.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not. Britain hasn't had the death penalty for 50 years
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Postby Captainfailsauce » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:00 pm

I'd like to see an optional torture regime as a cheap solution to suppress prisoners higher tier needs, at the expense of Freedom and Defence, of course. But then I'm weird like that.
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Postby Citizen » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:28 pm

Captainfailsauce wrote:I'd like to see an optional torture regime as a cheap solution to suppress prisoners higher tier needs, at the expense of Freedom and Defence, of course. But then I'm weird like that.


Living up to your name in the humor department, I see.
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Postby christopher1006 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:24 am

Captainfailsauce wrote:I'd like to see an optional torture regime as a cheap solution to suppress prisoners higher tier needs, at the expense of Freedom and Defence, of course. But then I'm weird like that.

I think Introversion would prefer to make the game simliar to modern day as opposed to death camps or the spanish inquisition.. thinking about that that would be an interesting mod, incident report: 15 heretics tortured and hanged with one witch burned at the stake today. I need to go to go to sleep and stop typing before I type something else...
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Postby Aeneas » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:20 am

phees wrote:Tear gas would be OK, but I would not like to see shooting in the game.

Criminals can get their hands onto handuns so :S Sorry man there is shooting in the game >P
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Postby Stromko » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:08 am

I think the lawyers would have a hard time getting away with the intentional (IE, shooting at with bullets, period) killing of an escaping inmate. They would have to prove the inmate was an immediate threat to someone's life. We're talking about a corporate, for-profit prison, and the costs in legal fees even on a 'legitimate' shot would be very high. Even with death row inmates, someone can make the argument that they could have been granted leniency, or been found 100% innocent, on appeals, so killing someone before their stated end-date is still a big deal.

Then again we do have a legal department in this game, so really it's only a matter of time before we're allowed to create situations where inmates are abused, injured or killed by the system and we have to deal with the fallout. I don't know if they'd give the option to just cover-up the occurrences, yeah there's all sorts of dirty prisons in real life but I'm not sure how far Introversion wants to take it.

In short I don't see why not, even though 'kill zones' would be a disastrous option if not employed very, very carefully.
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Postby javster » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:03 pm

Just build more fences... They're free... Guards may get shotguns in the future. Check Twitter and/or the ALpha 7 video
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Postby christopher1006 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:57 pm

csaftoiu wrote:
beekay wrote:Might as well go the whole way and allow locking everyone in a solitary cell forever with crumbs kicked under the door occasionally.

Brilliant! That would require minimal real-estate, minimal staff, minimal cooking, minimal costs, and would result in the intended punishment... why don't we just do that?

Because the moment that we release them they'll either be sent to an asylum or will go on a killing spree and end up back at the same place?
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Postby 111none » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:55 am

thepope229 wrote:idk about prison in for the british im a american i live in america, im thinking this over and i believe that rubber bullets or something would be better instead of killing. But yea you know you guys get pissy when there is a killzone but the electric for deathrow inmates nope thats not bad at all. hypocrites.

im american, but seeing bloodshed in gamez is just not for me.... life is important
With the sincerest regards,
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Daimaju
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Postby Daimaju » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:02 am

Guys,
LTL (less lethal weapons) are used when you need to stop someone from doing something he shall not. Like fighting, destroying equipment and so on.
But if someone is about the escape a prison - and the only way to stop him is shooting him - that is the right thing to do, that is not open for discussion.
They know they must not do that, they know the risk, they know the possible consequences.

We are not talking about normal citizen here, but about rapists and killers - besides the indie video game pirates :wink:

Therefor, I would like to see those zones, they would make sense in combination with guard towers/riflemen on them.
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Postby LennyLeak » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:12 am

Daimaju wrote:But if someone is about the escape a prison - and the only way to stop him is shooting him - that is the right thing to do, that is not open for discussion.
I am guessing that you do not study philosophy :lol:

At any rate. I am down with everything that gives me more options to build and run the prison the way I want to.. The way I want to run the prison might very well change from one playthrough to another.
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Postby Daimaju » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:16 am

LennyLeak wrote:I am guessing that you do not study philosophy :lol:


And why do you guess that? Please elaborate...
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christopher1006
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Postby christopher1006 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:55 am

Daimaju wrote:
LennyLeak wrote:I am guessing that you do not study philosophy :lol:


And why do you guess that? Please elaborate...


From the face that you used "right thing to do" as "right" is related to morals which is just perspective and more importantly your opinion. And the opinion that you have the right to shoot someone just because you warned them is generally frowned upon. If you're housing terrorists that's a bit more of an accepted method because the threat they pose is immediate since they can hook back up with their group and start causing mass havoc as opposed to some guy who stole a car that you shot so you don't have any escapes on the record.
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Postby Daimaju » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:17 am

christopher1006 wrote:
Daimaju wrote:
LennyLeak wrote:I am guessing that you do not study philosophy :lol:


And why do you guess that? Please elaborate...


From the face that you used "right thing to do" as "right" is related to morals which is just perspective and more importantly your opinion. And the opinion that you have the right to shoot someone just because you warned them is generally frowned upon. If you're housing terrorists that's a bit more of an accepted method because the threat they pose is immediate since they can hook back up with their group and start causing mass havoc as opposed to some guy who stole a car that you shot so you don't have any escapes on the record.


Since pretty much everything is opinion related, in society, let me put it this way: There are rules, there are consequences. If someone breaks a rule, he has to face the consequences. period.
Or would you disagree here?

There's a reason why those guard tower watches (in RL) have scoped rifles and shotguns.
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Postby LennyLeak » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:30 am

Daimaju wrote:And why do you guess that? Please elaborate...
Sorry, I was not trying to put you down.. I said that mostly because you think it so self evident that there is no room for discussion. I also think that very few ethical positions would back your claim of the absolute righteousness of killing escaping prisoners.

christopher1006 wrote:From the face that you used "right thing to do" as "right" is related to morals which is just perspective and more importantly your opinion.
Not really. I am an ethical realist and as such I believe that some things are actually right or wrong independent of what you may think or believe. As I am also a utilitarian I believe that what is right or wrong depends on the circumstance (but not on belief). Therefore something is never absolutely right or wrong as in 'end of discussion'. Whether shooting an escaping convict would be right would depend - among other things - on the type of crime he has perpetrated, the likeliness of recidivism and the chance of critically wounding him by shooting him.

christopher1006 wrote:And the opinion that you have the right to shoot someone just because you warned them is generally frowned upon...
This is more to the point I think. When arguing right or wrong we should not rely on what people generally frown upon (intuitions are full of shit), but I do believe that most ethical positions would agree, that giving someone a warning does not in itself make it right to harm them.

Daimaju wrote:Since pretty much everything is opinion related, in society, let me put it this way: There are rules, there are consequences. If someone breaks a rule, he has to face the consequences. period.
Or would you disagree here?

There's a reason why those guard tower watches (in RL) have scoped rifles and shotguns.
That people have opinions on everything, does not mean that everything is dependent on peoples opinions. You are right that there are rules and consequences (cause and effect), but that does not mean that any consequence/effect is righteous because of it. People will have to face the consequences of their actions, but that is not to say that those consequences are good or righteous. We could have capital punishment for jaywalking. You would have to face the chair for crossing the wrong street - but it most certainly would not be fair or morally good.

I think there may be some confusion here about the difference between legal and moral 'rights' and the nature of moral truths. However, I did not try to start a philosophical debate, it was merely a poor attempt of humor. I'm sorry if it came across as insulting. You do not need knowledge about moral philosophy to be a smart or good individual. That you (still guessing here) do not study philosophy only means that you've probably spent your time learning other things that I would also like to know. All of us could (and should) school each other in our different areas of expertise, but probably not in this thread though :D

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