Fog of War - Your feedback here

(previously 'DEVELOPER') Private forum for registered community members. To register, please visit www.prison-architect.com/register.

Moderator: NBJeff

User avatar
Hessen
level3
level3
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:47 pm
Location: Swindon, England

Postby Hessen » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:15 pm

Would much prefer an RTS style fog of war where you can still see landscape/buildings but not any "units".
User avatar
ronanc
level4
level4
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:56 pm
Location: Vietnam

Postby ronanc » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:20 pm

Hessen wrote:Would much prefer an RTS style fog of war where you can still see landscape/buildings but not any "units".


Ya I'm starting to feel that too. It's a bit of a pain to build with fog (actually it's a major pain). At the end of the day, the fog is to block the prisoners BUT as Chris has stated when they riot they move furniture around and barricade doors.

Solution - this fog we have now for riots and something like RTS fog (desaturated colours and no prisoners on screen) for normal fog?
User avatar
Hessen
level3
level3
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:47 pm
Location: Swindon, England

Postby Hessen » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:22 pm

The buildings/items that still show in fog would just be what state they were in last time they were viewable.

Obviously more difficult to code
Collic001
level2
level2
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:41 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Collic001 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:27 pm

ronanc wrote:
Hessen wrote:Would much prefer an RTS style fog of war where you can still see landscape/buildings but not any "units".


Ya I'm starting to feel that too. It's a bit of a pain to build with fog (actually it's a major pain). At the end of the day, the fog is to block the prisoners BUT as Chris has stated when they riot they move furniture around and barricade doors.

Solution - this fog we have now for riots and something like RTS fog (desaturated colours and no prisoners on screen) for normal fog?


I don't see why there would need to be a different fog of war for riots. The area would remain as it was the last time you saw it (objects and furniture), but once you get in and the fog is peeled back, you see what's really going on inside.
furrot
level1
level1
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:15 am

Postby furrot » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:54 pm

I disagree that all staff should reveal territory and reveal the map. I think with the way it is right now we will see phenomenon such as unexplained murders and unknown destruction/theft. Imagine you don't cover your medical ward with a guard or camera and the next time someone is hurt you discover someone murdered your doctors. I think this is the kind of unexpected behavior the fog of war is there to help hide.

That being said, I feel the biggest issue with the fog of war right now is that it's active when you don't have prisoners. I started a new map earlier and it was "un-fun" to deal with the fog of war during the first 24hrs when you have neither prisoners or guards. If it only kicked in after you have at least one prisoner it would be a great change. I believe the fog of war is partly there to give a sense of control loss so I don't think it needs to apply when there's nothing to control.

I don't have an opinion on the god view but I do wish it was a little clearer. I had trouble seeing if I had zoned a standard 4x4 office correctly with the current level of fadeaway.
Crunch
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:08 am

Postby Crunch » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:35 pm

In the current state the fog of war just adds frustration to my gameplay experience. It's a major pain to manage ANYTHING (i.e. Doctors, Switches, build stuff, Kichten staff, etc.). I hope the so-called god-view isn't removed from the final version. If I want to play an RTS title or round based strategy game (the only two genres where FOW makes sense IMHO) I do so. But this is a tycoon-type game after all. I assumed CCTVs allowed the guards to react on situations in other parts of the prison on their own...
Aznsteel
level1
level1
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:52 am

Postby Aznsteel » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:51 pm

What i think they should do is make it so all staff can see alittle bit but not more then guards because
1. It would keep more sense of keeping guards earlier in the game
2. Guards should be trained to see more.
Also another idea is to make it that the light would increase the way staff/guards to see around the prison EX, A guard without any light can only see up to 4 tiles of space while a guard inside another room can see up to 10 tiles of space with lights.
User avatar
City Builder
level2
level2
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:23 pm
Location: Weston Super Mare

Postby City Builder » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:58 am

IMO All personnel employed by the prison should remove the fog of war. I shouldn't really need to place a cctv in the offices, the warden, chief, accountant etc should remove the fog within the offices, especially when the rooms are only 5x5.
silk78
level0
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:47 pm

Postby silk78 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:57 am

I like the idea of fog of war, but not the current implementation of it.
    * Fog of war should mean that you are not aware of changes if no one is watching and reporting it.
    * Planned buildings are always known.
    * The displayed state of constructed buildings should be preserved until someone is watching and reporting a change.
    * When something planed gets constructed you know it has been constructed.
    * Fog of war should be not too obvious.
    * Prisoners can only be seen if they are not in fog of war.
The situations I'd love to experience are:
    * You think the fence is fine and only discover the hole after someone finds and reports it.
    * cctv cameras can be hacked so that they show some recorded video in loops.
    * Prisoners have a feeling if they are watched. Tunnels are only build when no one is watching.
    * Maybe line of sight can be blocked somehow by prisoners? Changes in fog of war through manipulation should not be obvious.
    * Prisoners are demanding at least some privacy. Trade off between security and privacy.


It is crucial to determine which information is available to the player. What happens if there is only one guard and he is assaulted by prisoners. Is fog of war removed in this case?
I think the information has to be transmitted somehow. Hit an alarm button or cry for help so that someone else hits the alarm button
decentAlbatross
level0
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:59 am

Postby decentAlbatross » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Fog is a neat idea but should definitely be transparent.

- Should be a light mist that hides prisoners but not your stuff. That would let you can admire your creation and easier plan expansions while still suggest you don't have full vision of an area.
- Any staff member should also grant vision since they all work for you. Otherwise there's not much point in decorating and buying expensive floorboards for you offices since guards are unlikely to go there unless you create a redundant patrol path for those areas.

That is all, keep up the good work!
Causeless
level2
level2
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:49 pm

Postby Causeless » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:46 pm

I love the current mist effect; I think it should still happen, but the object blueprints are overlayed on top of this. When things are moved about, you don't know about it until you view it again, which updates the supposed positions.
User avatar
Hessen
level3
level3
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:47 pm
Location: Swindon, England

Postby Hessen » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:51 pm

I'm going to come right out and say it.

I hate fog of war and I think it is anti fun for this type of computer game.
User avatar
ronanc
level4
level4
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:56 pm
Location: Vietnam

Postby ronanc » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:57 pm

Hessen wrote:I'm going to come right out and say it.

I hate fog of war and I think it is anti fun for this type of computer game.


You know what.. the more I play it, the less I like it. I guess our hunches were right in the line of sight thread.

I still love the idea of it and the whole CCTV & monitor setup... it's a tough one. I think a different implementation is needed in the very least.
Pixelchaser
level0
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:18 pm

Postby Pixelchaser » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:14 pm

imho FOW detracts from everything architecture, and as architect is implied from the outset im not so sure i like this FOW. but for gameplay i understand completely its necessity and involvment as a mechanic.

now. my solution is to simply hide the participating people and their actions within the confines of any room/area. however ! FOW is leading to somthing else as quoted in the announcment video. so we`ll have to wait and see what that is before we apply more feedback.
User avatar
koshensky
level3
level3
Posts: 407
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:57 pm
Location: Cornwall

Postby koshensky » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:30 pm

Pixelchaser wrote:now. my solution is to simply hide the participating people and their actions within the confines of any room/area. however ! FOW is leading to somthing else as quoted in the announcment video. so we`ll have to wait and see what that is before we apply more feedback.


It's already been released that it's riots :P

However, you're right - Chris has identified that there are a few things that would be worth changing with FOW for the next update, I would argue that we should wait until things like the Fog of War only occurring when you have prisoners, and don't come in on arbitrary rooms that the prisoners can't access (like Offices). When that's sorted, I think it'll make more sense where it's headed.

Return to “Community Members”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest