No T&A Please

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Does anyone else want T&A in the story line?

Yes, just like in the walkthrough
Yes, but how about full frontal nudity, porno style
Is this Introversion or Square Enix?
I'll take mine neat and fully (or at least mostly) clothed
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No T&A Please

Postby cyberis » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:16 am

First I want to say that this is an amazing game, probably Introversion's finest. Yes, its alpha and yes there are bugs, but for an alpha this is very rich and works pretty well. So what I want to talk about is direction. I have supported you guys for years. I've bought every one of the four games and some multiple times. I bought directly, I bought on Steam, and I bought for the iPad (Uplink). I also bought the whole source code files when those were offered for Uplink.

So I really like the fact that you tell a story and make good use of game play elements. You like to brag that you are fiercely independent and don't want anyone telling you how to make a game. And yet you think you'll sell more games if you put drawings of nearly naked women in your story line. That's so big publisher. We've had plenty of Lara Croft and big breasted women in little outfits. I was a little surprised when I saw the drawings of the cheating wife. Really not much was left to the imagination.

I like to play games at work (on lunch break), at home in the family room, and in the case of games that run on my laptop (which this one runs beautifully on) or my iPad, in restaurants. Then I really don't want stuff like that popping up. Besides, I really don't think that sells, not nearly as much as a good story line and good game play. Defcon was awesome for game play and Uplink was great for atmosphere and story line. The modding ability on that was great too.

I don't mind the comic drawing presentation, or working through a gritty story line, but I really don't think you need a titty story line to go with it. I'm thinking of upping my contribution to the $500 level (I'd have gone with a thousand but the wardens were all gobbled up), but I don't want my story to be quite that explicit. I suppose I prefer my cadavers fully, or mostly, clothed.

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Postby Nibbles » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:54 am

Why not add drug abuse, full nudity, and adult themes?
Pretty sure that prison rape might also be incorporated. Prisons are dirty places, Prison Archietect is a prison simulation.
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Postby Masochist » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:45 am

I think one of the main perks of being an indy company is the freedom of content. I think the dev team should have the freedom to choose how much of whatever content they desire.

That said...perhaps a simple "family filter" style option that would allow some pictures to be replaced with more mild ones for people in situations like yours would be good?

I just don't want a family filter to become more important than the game itself, IE every aspect of development revolves around making it a PG rating.

I am a desensitized as hell adult...I don't mind excessive violence, rape, nudity, etc...its happens and its real...I don't care to hide behind some politically correct protectionist mindset where the world is rainbows and pretty things. (not that you do or whatever...personal rant XD)
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Postby Azarath » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:16 am

I don't think they should be censored at all. IV have made 4 great games that are all PG, why not make one that contains more adult themes? As someone has already said, prisons are at their core dark and graphic places, and it's not as such about the nudity, as it is the impact it has. Sons of Anarchy had a scene a few episodes back, ironically in a prison, where someone died, lots of blood etc. I'm sure someone thought about the blood the same, but it was more the impact, Kurt Sutter saying "welcome to the dark reality of the prison system".

IMO, anyway.
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Postby Lewis » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:20 am

I agree, it was a little unexpected. Maybe have an option to keep it PG on default but allow explicit content when checked off.

The tutorial was unskippable, and as a sim game I can see how it would appeal to all audiences.
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Postby Legion303 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:00 am

Naked prisoners are stabbing each other in the showers. I can handle the equivalent of a family newspaper's bra ad.
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Postby Saranis » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:05 am

To be honest, I had to look up what the heck you meant by T&A, my husband was clueless as well so I wasn't alone. I'm not opposed to full nudity as long as its done tastefully. People see naked people any time they look in the mirror after showering, so its not like children are going to be seeing anything new.

It all depends on the direction they want to go with the theme of the game. I'd rather them keep it dark and adult than see them censor everything for a PG rating. If people feel that Nudity is required to make a game 'Adult' than they need to rethink what adult actually is.

Of course just because there is Nudity doesn't mean its obscene. People need to just ask themselves this, "Would I not take my child to (insert prestigious art museum here) just because they have nude paintings or statues."
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Postby Chad » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:37 am

Saranis wrote:To be honest, I had to look up what the heck you meant by T&A, my husband was clueless as well so I wasn't alone. [...]

I still have no idea what T&A means.

Beside of that, I don't think the game is supposed to be a childs game. Criminals are not in prison because they have picked flowers. The overall comic style of the game provides enough censoreship (in case of nudity).

Other things like drugs etc. are part of a prisoners life and should be definitly in game.
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Postby phees » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:21 am

Apparently the poster means this:

It think the term T&A is more rude than the game's pictures. I seriously hope the OP has not written his post at work!
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Postby a__gun » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:32 am

I can understand that no-one really wants this popping up at work, but I hate it when people go 'Oh look, drugs/sex/violence in a book/game/film. They're clearly doing that for marketing reasons alone. That's outrageous!'. This is a gritty game, with many dark themes (As previous posters have pointed out). It would be a real let down to me if I watched that cutscene and Edward had walked in on the totally unrealistic scene of two adults having fully clothed sex. I'm fine with things being censored as an option, but I'd hate if it became the default forced on all of us. Personally I think rape, murder, capital punishment and shanking are all far more adult and objectionable than a small scene with partial nudity.

P.S. for anyone still wondering T&A = Tits n' Ass
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Postby Mas Tnega » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:57 pm

What comes to mind is a certain Simspons episode. Not much was left to the imagination there either. I don't recall them raising the age restriction on that one.

Quick bit of advice: None of the other scenarios are likely to be something you want to publicly display at a restaurant. Expect grit, expect horror, expect people not to be inexplicably clothed in a sex scene. Chris wants to take this seriously and he threatens to be in a foul mood when he does it.
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Postby ElectricGlow » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:00 pm

I don't want to make this into a political diatribe, but I've always been confused as to how parents and people (at least in North America) get all upset about nudity or sexual themes in games/media, but beating someone to death with a fire extinguisher is not as bad a problem.

Like in GTA: San Andreas - having a (albeit clumsily half-coded) sex minigame was appalling and horrifying. Being able to graphically slit someone's throat with a knife? That wasn't mentioned on the news. But any sex was a big no-no.
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Postby Masochist » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:26 pm

"Mothers of America" we call it...

America is a nation that seems to have a horrid obsession with being politically correct as to not hurt peoples feelings it seems. So strange agenda's get pushed when people make enough noise and politicians and the like go along with that because its votes for them or whatever...

In short? A bunch of BS really...
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Postby jelco » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:49 pm

I find very little about anything said in this debate to actually make sense.

I disagree that showing nudity is a sign of giving in to the masses and going "big publisher". You have no idea why they put it in there since there hasn't been any direct feedback on that yet - you're jumping to conclusions awfully fast just because something is being done that you've not seen in other contexts than "big publishers".

I disagree that any 'adult' material can be justified by saying "it happens in real life". That's missing the point: just because stuff happens doesn't mean a game needs to or even should contain depictions of or references to it. Something can definitely go downhill when something is put in that doesn't belong there and isn't in line with the game's intentions.

I disagree that this kind of material should be banned "because it can be played by children". A target audience can be shaped by the game just as much as vice versa; it's not one-way traffic. Waving this didactic flag of purity and innocence(TM) in video game land is ridiculous - not because the sentiment is misplaced (I agree that kids shouldn't witness stuff like this in kindergarten) but because I see far more value in not letting them touch games in the first place (e.g. by setting a correct rating) than in adjusting games to them.

I disagree that you can get away with stuff like this by calling something "gritty". That word is being abused since the onset of 'tough' shooters in the seventh-gen era to justify violence and nudity under the pretense of it being 'realistic' when in fact most of it is a combination of testosterone and misplaced patriotism(-ish) sentiments with a tone of "war is awesome" to support it.

I disagree that it fits with Prison Architect's style - the main gameplay is way too cartoony for that, and not in a dark humor kind of way. It's not a 'prison simulator' like some of you claim just because the setting is a prison. At its core it's just a tycoon game with different labels and imagery that comes with the different setting, but it's not in any way a prison simulator (and it really doesn't have to be).

Basically I'd agree that it shouldn't be in this game, but I disagree with most arguments brought in here both in favour of and against this opinion.

Also: for crying out loud, use the Search button.


PS: I do wholly agree by the way that the phrasing "T&A" really doesn't help. Either spell it out or use proper formal wording so you don't have to - this is just like spelling "f*ck" because somehow you think that's less 'offensive' to people who are for some reason offended by the actual word "fuck". Talk about keeping up appearances.
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Postby plumbob » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:01 pm

The themes in this game are far more disturbing than a boob. In far I would MUCH rather my children see an unclad cartoon breast than two cartoon men stabbing one another in the shower, or on being electrocuted by the state for that matter. Obviously that's the choice of a parent, by no child should be playing this game anyway.

I had no issue with the developer choosing to implement a gritty noir style plot line - even if the game itself might not fall in line with that style. I'm not really sure how this game would delivery a story line without it anyway? Text in the little cartoon need bubbles?
Last edited by plumbob on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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