Y U no put save games into game folder?

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HeruAsatru
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Y U no put save games into game folder?

Postby HeruAsatru » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:30 pm

Hello people,
I bought the alpha two days ago and I'm really satisfied by the game so far.
But there is one thing that bothers me:
Why are the save games and preferences kept in c:\users\xxx\appdata\local\introversion\prison architect\ ?
I got that same thing going with minecraft and towns... why do such small games (that fit perfectly on an usb drive to play on every piece of hardware you lay your hands on)
save these files in such a location ... I'd love to see the save and preferences folder to be moved to the actual PA folder or at least given the option to define that location for myself.

apart of that, i'm really loving the game so far. :)
Keep up the good work...

best regards
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Chris
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Postby Chris » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:57 pm

One answer: Microsoft.
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Postby Illanair » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:58 pm

Three reasons.

1. It saves clutter in the "My Documents" folder.
2. It allows for multi user enviroments without having to "pick profile" every time you start the game. (Since appdata is unique for each user unlike the game folder)
3. Alpha is alpha - plenty of time to move things around.
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Postby HeruAsatru » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:11 pm

Chris wrote:One answer: Microsoft.

Am I missing something essential here? What got this to do with microsoft?

Illanair wrote:Three reasons.
1. It saves clutter in the "My Documents" folder.
2. It allows for multi user enviroments without having to "pick profile" every time you start the game. (Since appdata is unique for each user unlike the game folder)
3. Alpha is alpha - plenty of time to move things around.

1. Putting the saves in the actual game folder saves clutter in the 'My Documents' folder too.
2. Ok, I didn't think about that, because I am the only person to use my hardware
3. Let's hope so ! :D


Thanks for the answers guys! :)
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Postby a__gun » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:50 pm

HeruAsatru wrote:
Chris wrote:One answer: Microsoft.

Am I missing something essential here? What got this to do with microsoft?


Microsoft makes windows (The operating System your computer runs on) It is largely up to them and the way they write things what folders are available to a game to save data to. Having said that, once we have in game settings modification theres no reason you couldnt change the save path then.
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Postby Illanair » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:56 pm

a__gun wrote:
HeruAsatru wrote:
Chris wrote:One answer: Microsoft.

Am I missing something essential here? What got this to do with microsoft?


Microsoft makes windows (The operating System your computer runs on) It is largely up to them and the way they write things what folders are available to a game to save data to. Having said that, once we have in game settings modification theres no reason you couldnt change the save path then.


Still doesn't explain why - It's not like you're forced to put savegame data (or any data for that matter) in appdata last I checked. Not even when using UAC as I recall. (shudder)
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Postby Foxsake » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:03 pm

Windows limits directories which can be written to.


UAC: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163486.aspx
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Postby xander » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:07 pm

Illanair wrote:Still doesn't explain why - It's not like you're forced to put savegame data (or any data for that matter) in appdata last I checked. Not even when using UAC as I recall. (shudder)

In general, you don't want a regular user to be able to read, write, and execute data that is shared with all users. If a user executes malicious code, you want the effect to be limited to that user's files. Allowing any user to save data to the application directory creates the potential for malicious code to be executed by anyone. The secure model is to put the executable in one place, and user writable files somewhere else, which is exactly as things are right now.

Whether or not Microsoft enforces this practice, or implements security in a multi-user operating system in a way that makes sense, this is the Right Thing to Do™.

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Postby alexanderpas » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:54 pm

There are dedicated folder for SaveGames:

on Windows Vista and Higher:

Code: Select all

%USERPROFILE%\Saved Games\<GameName>


on Windows XP:

Code: Select all

%USERPROFILE%\My Documents\My Games\<GameName>


Is there any reason these folders are not usable?

In general, %localappdata% should be reserved for non-savegame data, that doesn't matter if lost, like user specific settings.
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Postby Illanair » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:47 pm

Foxsake wrote:Windows limits directories which can be written to.


UAC: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163486.aspx


I'd read that - But I'd never even consider using UAC. It is a plague upon Windows. So yeah - if the reason lies within it'll stay buried :P

@Xander: Well yeah - which is why you have the MY DOCUMENTS folder. Heck plenty of people have tried making a standard for what folders within games go to. But alas they range from making folders directly in the MyDoc root to using "My Games" to "COMPANY_NAME_HERE Games" - and it isn't any better in appdata. Only exception being that players often need access to appdata for their games - an area with a lot of fragile files. It's like regedit - do something wrong and you'll be digging through support forums for a week.
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Postby xander » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:59 am

Illanair wrote:@Xander: Well yeah - which is why you have the MY DOCUMENTS folder. Heck plenty of people have tried making a standard for what folders within games go to. But alas they range from making folders directly in the MyDoc root to using "My Games" to "COMPANY_NAME_HERE Games" - and it isn't any better in appdata. Only exception being that players often need access to appdata for their games - an area with a lot of fragile files. It's like regedit - do something wrong and you'll be digging through support forums for a week.

The original poster seemed to want the data in the application folder. As I said above, I make no claims about the quality of Microsoft's implementation, only that separating user-land data from shared data is the Right Thing To Do™.

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Postby MrBrown » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:01 am

xander wrote:The original poster seemed to want the data in the application folder. As I said above, I make no claims about the quality of Microsoft's implementation, only that separating user-land data from shared data is the Right Thing To Do™.

It definitely is the right thing to do. I don't care if it's "Documents", "SavedGames" or "AppData" where the savegames go, but it should NOT be the application directory! I guess on WinXP the best choice is "Documents", on Vista/Win7 it's "SavedGames".

HeruAsatru wrote: I'd love to see the save and preferences folder to be moved to the actual PA folder or at least given the option to define that location for myself.

Then that location would have to be stored in a separate configuration file which contains nothing else. Because obviously you cannot store the location of the main configuration file in the main configuration file :) Miranda IM does it like that, there's a mirandaboot.ini in the application folder where you can change the directory of your profile folder, which contains the actual configuration files.

But it should definitely default to a directory below C:\Users\<your user>

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