[Feedback] Some initial thoughts...

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qbicfeet
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[Feedback] Some initial thoughts...

Postby qbicfeet » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:50 pm

First of all, thank you Introversion. I really, really enjoy the game and I can't wait to see how it will turn out in the future.

Anyway, here are a few initial thoughts after a few days of playing:

- I think the game (sandbox) progresses too fast. Eight prisoners every 24 hours feels like way too much for me, at least right now seeing how prisoners never leave. I remember you (IV) had been talking about sandbox parameters, so when you get to that point in development, let us change the amount of prisoners per intake.

- Foundations are pretty annoying to work with, especially when it comes to building extensions. Let us be able to overlap foundations, or rework the system completely - Maybe let us build roofs on top of already existing walls instead?

- Speaking of roofs - Z-levels. It's hard to build a truly efficient prison right now and on the small sized map you run out of space fairly soon, so I'm expecting to see something like this in the future. Oh, and let us be able to build below ground too.

- More object customization options. Hardly a priority now, but at the time the game is released it would be nice to have a catalogue of objects of varying quality, design and color.

- More detailed tool tips. I have no idea what some objects do.

- Lights getting auto-built in foundations is a little annoying for me when I have already planned where they should go. Let us toggle the automatic placements of lights in the options or something.

- Some prisoners won't eat because they are too busy COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR HUNGER. It's hilarious, until they begin stabbing each other. Prisoners shouldn't complain about something (showering, eating, bored) when they have the solution right in front of them.


That's all I can think of right now.
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Postby Ada » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:08 pm

Here come my thoughts of your feedback:

- I think the game (sandbox) progresses too fast. Eight prisoners every 24 hours feels like way too much for me, at least right now seeing how prisoners never leave. I remember you (IV) had been talking about sandbox parameters, so when you get to that point in development, let us change the amount of prisoners per intake.


I partly agree. I think the game sometimes runs too slow (nothing happens) but when the prisoners come there is just too much to handle suddenly. So I definatley agree with that part of your suggestion.

- Foundations are pretty annoying to work with, especially when it comes to building extensions. Let us be able to overlap foundations, or rework the system completely - Maybe let us build roofs on top of already existing walls instead?


I agree. Foundations should more just be there to say "Hey, this is indoor if an area here is surrounded by walls" instead of saying "This is some irritating shit".

- Speaking of roofs - Z-levels. It's hard to build a truly efficient prison right now and on the small sized map you run out of space fairly soon, so I'm expecting to see something like this in the future. Oh, and let us be able to build below ground too.


Z-levels is something that is very hard to do well from a graphical point of view. I think it'd take too much devtime for it to be worth it. There is so much else that needs work first that I think this should be very low priority even though I'd like it if it was done well.

- More object customization options. Hardly a priority now, but at the time the game is released it would be nice to have a catalogue of objects of varying quality, design and color.


I agree. Way too little graphical customization options on your prison. Different kind of doors would be cool too; i.e. code locks, normal locks, eye scanner, normal slide doors, rotation doors, etc.

- More detailed tool tips. I have no idea what some objects do.


Totally agree. This is of outmost importance!

- Lights getting auto-built in foundations is a little annoying for me when I have already planned where they should go. Let us toggle the automatic placements of lights in the options or something.


Totally agree. At the moment the automatic lights placement is just irritating.

- Some prisoners won't eat because they are too busy COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR HUNGER. It's hilarious, until they begin stabbing each other. Prisoners shouldn't complain about something (showering, eating, bored) when they have the solution right in front of them.


I agree. I rather think this is a bug than something intended.
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Postby askiba » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:10 pm

Ada wrote:
- Speaking of roofs - Z-levels. It's hard to build a truly efficient prison right now and on the small sized map you run out of space fairly soon, so I'm expecting to see something like this in the future. Oh, and let us be able to build below ground too.


Z-levels is something that is very hard to do well from a graphical point of view. I think it'd take too much devtime for it to be worth it. There is so much else that needs work first that I think this should be very low priority even though I'd like it if it was done well.


I agree with everything except this. Just make any higher z-levels blue tiles (like the sky) or very blurry Z-level below or something. Dirt/stone on lower z-levels. As long as it's based on solid placement logic I think it will be a key feature, even if nigh-infinite map size is allowed.
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Postby qbicfeet » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:20 pm

askiba wrote:
Ada wrote:
- Speaking of roofs - Z-levels. It's hard to build a truly efficient prison right now and on the small sized map you run out of space fairly soon, so I'm expecting to see something like this in the future. Oh, and let us be able to build below ground too.


Z-levels is something that is very hard to do well from a graphical point of view. I think it'd take too much devtime for it to be worth it. There is so much else that needs work first that I think this should be very low priority even though I'd like it if it was done well.


I agree with everything except this. Just make any higher z-levels blue tiles (like the sky) or very blurry Z-level below or something. Dirt/stone on lower z-levels. As long as it's based on solid placement logic I think it will be a key feature, even if nigh-infinite map size is allowed.


Just what I was going to say :P
Dwarf Fortress handled Z-levels in a 2D-environment very well, and it's not like I'm asking for mountains and rolling hills. Just a way to build up or dig down.
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Postby ronanc » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:26 pm

Just throwing my 2 cents in that I'm happy to play on one plane and do not want Z levels.
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Postby Ada » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:30 pm

qbicfeet wrote:
askiba wrote:
Ada wrote:
- Speaking of roofs - Z-levels. It's hard to build a truly efficient prison right now and on the small sized map you run out of space fairly soon, so I'm expecting to see something like this in the future. Oh, and let us be able to build below ground too.


Z-levels is something that is very hard to do well from a graphical point of view. I think it'd take too much devtime for it to be worth it. There is so much else that needs work first that I think this should be very low priority even though I'd like it if it was done well.


I agree with everything except this. Just make any higher z-levels blue tiles (like the sky) or very blurry Z-level below or something. Dirt/stone on lower z-levels. As long as it's based on solid placement logic I think it will be a key feature, even if nigh-infinite map size is allowed.


Just what I was going to say :P
Dwarf Fortress handled Z-levels in a 2D-environment very well, and it's not like I'm asking for mountains and rolling hills. Just a way to build up or dig down.


Even if DF handled it well doesn't mean it is something that is easy done.
It'd require alot of development time and are you really sure you'd rather want Z-levels than a bug free and smooth game?
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Postby Masochist » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:33 pm

I definitely think Z levels are a "later on" feature...

If one level isnt working very well why add a second level and double the complexity?...
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Postby zhenya » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:33 pm

Ada wrote:
qbicfeet wrote:
askiba wrote:
Ada wrote:
- Speaking of roofs - Z-levels. It's hard to build a truly efficient prison right now and on the small sized map you run out of space fairly soon, so I'm expecting to see something like this in the future. Oh, and let us be able to build below ground too.


Z-levels is something that is very hard to do well from a graphical point of view. I think it'd take too much devtime for it to be worth it. There is so much else that needs work first that I think this should be very low priority even though I'd like it if it was done well.


I agree with everything except this. Just make any higher z-levels blue tiles (like the sky) or very blurry Z-level below or something. Dirt/stone on lower z-levels. As long as it's based on solid placement logic I think it will be a key feature, even if nigh-infinite map size is allowed.


Just what I was going to say :P
Dwarf Fortress handled Z-levels in a 2D-environment very well, and it's not like I'm asking for mountains and rolling hills. Just a way to build up or dig down.


Even if DF handled it well doesn't mean it is something that is easy done.
It'd require a lot of development time and are you really sure you'd rather want Z-levels than a bug free and smooth game?


I'd prefer BOTH Z levels and a bug free, smooth game. If I understand you aren't on the dev team, why don't you let them answer the question about how feasible it is to develop.
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Postby Masochist » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:40 pm

It takes nothing more than a simple understanding of programming to know that its not easy and takes lots of dev time...lol...

You also sound really angry. just sayin.
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Postby a__gun » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:44 pm

I don't think it's something they intend to do at this point. Certainly not any time soon.
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Postby askiba » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:57 am

Fair enough. A nice possible feature, regardless of how hard or easy it is to develop. We can at least agree on that, right?

Either way, my one-dimensional prison will rule! :)
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Postby xyzyxx » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:51 am

I hope you mean two-dimensional? :P
Some people talk because they have something to say. Others talk because they have to say something.
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Postby RuN » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:32 am

- I think the game (sandbox) progresses too fast. Eight prisoners every 24 hours feels like way too much for me, at least right now seeing how prisoners never leave. I remember you (IV) had been talking about sandbox parameters, so when you get to that point in development, let us change the amount of prisoners per intake.


I totally agree with this, when I reached my third delivery of inmates I could not build fast enough or keep them in line I think it needs a bit of balancing in that regard..

- Foundations are pretty annoying to work with, especially when it comes to building extensions. Let us be able to overlap foundations, or rework the system completely - Maybe let us build roofs on top of already existing walls instead?


Being able to easily and quickly "extend" or "expand" a structure such as a cell block or office area / maybe have 2 floors etc. would be very cool and would make it feel less infuriating to try to demolish and rebuild.

- Speaking of roofs - Z-levels. It's hard to build a truly efficient prison right now and on the small sized map you run out of space fairly soon, so I'm expecting to see something like this in the future. Oh, and let us be able to build below ground too.


I would not say I am interested in roofs and such, but having 2 floors per cell block like some prisons out there would be really cool and make total sense.

- More object customization options. Hardly a priority now, but at the time the game is released it would be nice to have a catalogue of objects of varying quality, design and color.


I agree but I am sure its something they are going to focus on later in development.

- More detailed tool tips. I have no idea what some objects do.


Yes. Trying to learn without any real help and not knowing about grants and such made my start VERY frustrating.

- Lights getting auto-built in foundations is a little annoying for me when I have already planned where they should go. Let us toggle the automatic placements of lights in the options or something.


Not sure I mind the automatic placement honestly.

- Some prisoners won't eat because they are too busy COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR HUNGER. It's hilarious, until they begin stabbing each other. Prisoners shouldn't complain about something (showering, eating, bored) when they have the solution right in front of them.


I thought it was a bug, was this reported already?.[/quote]
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Postby Arclight_Dynamo » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:36 am

Z-levels would be great, though I imagine that's something that would come much later, if at all.
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Postby randommonicle » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:49 am

I agree with everything here. Also i think we should be able to do things such as put prisoners to work in our facilities. I know a lot of prisons have prisoners work in laundry and the kitchens a lot of the time etc.

Also as has been mentioned in other suggestion threads, we need to have prisoners that have a release date. Not every prisoner would be on a life sentence :P And when they arrive, they should all be able to be lead by a few guards, single file as opposed to one at a time.

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