Alpha 34 Tunnelling

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jenjenola
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Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby jenjenola » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:59 pm

Ever since alpha 34 I can't seem to be able to unearth any tunnels. I have 10 dog patrols covering my prison and they are turning up a lot of yellow flags in certain locations. Then I search cell blocks and do shakedowns but nothing gets found. I know there must be a tunnel in the location because of the overwhelming number of flags but multiple cell block searches and at least 5 shakedowns later I still haven't uncovered any tunnels. What am I doing wrong?!?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=473465322

Not sure how to get the pic url from steam so I added a link to the prison and there is the picture.
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Pogmothoin
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Pogmothoin » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:19 pm

You can still pick up tunnels on cell block searches, just the chance is quite low. The only time a shakedown is any good is in the middle of the night, because the guard walks into the cell and finds a dummy.

However there was an update with this alpha that if you manually select a toilet and elect to search it alone then any tunnel connected will automatically be found. Dogs give you a rough guide to where tunnels are, all you need to do is search the toilets in the cells nearby. Most tunnels connect to other cells, then make a beeline to the closest wall and then finally a straight line to the closest exterior wall.

From the pic the tunnel is most likely from the cells in the north than the ones bellow.
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby paule3000 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:12 pm

Pogmothoin wrote:However there was an update with this alpha that if you manually select a toilet and elect to search it alone then any tunnel connected will automatically be found.


I have the impression that this feature doesn't work properly. In some cases I had lots of yellow flags along pretty obvious tunnelling routes, but despite searching every single toilet manually, I uncovered tunnels only by repeat shakedowns or successful escapes. Though this may be due to the fact, that I started the prison in question with Alpha 33.
jenjenola
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby jenjenola » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:29 am

Ok I manually searched every single toilet in the cell blocks close to the flags and I didn't find any tunnels. I can see the tunnel is progressing along a main water pipe by the placement of the flags so now I think I'm just going to let the game run for a bit and see what happens. My big water pipes don't run outside or close to the perimeter walls so I think they are just going to dig themselves a big circle.
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby RedTear » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:23 am

Shakedown, Search Cell Block and Search Cell doesnt uncover tunnels, only manualy searching the toilet.
Of course, if you think that doesnt work and you know where it is, you could also dismantle it, that would reveal the tunnel for sure.
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Geez3r » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:17 am

RedTear wrote:Shakedown, Search Cell Block and Search Cell doesnt uncover tunnels, only manualy searching the toilet.
Of course, if you think that doesnt work and you know where it is, you could also dismantle it, that would reveal the tunnel for sure.


I search cell blocks during sleep and find tunnels before they reach the dog patrols. Then again I search a cell block every other night trolling for CI's,
Inge Jones
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Inge Jones » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:05 am

Has anyone made a mod to disable tunnelling? I find this particular part of the game overdone and is getting a bit tedious. I feel sure it's not that easy to tunnel in a real prison.

I started a suggestion ticket for it http://bugs.introversion.co.uk/view.php?id=9370
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Freebo
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Freebo » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:30 pm

I had a prison where they didnt bother with tunnels until around day 30. Now I uncover at least two a night. I perform a shakedown every night when I remeber. The Manual search of the toilets seems to work for me too when my dogs find a tunnel however its not always the closest toilet.
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Pogmothoin
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Pogmothoin » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:18 pm

Inge Jones wrote:Has anyone made a mod to disable tunnelling? I find this particular part of the game overdone and is getting a bit tedious. I feel sure it's not that easy to tunnel in a real prison.

I started a suggestion ticket for it http://bugs.introversion.co.uk/view.php?id=9370


If prisoners are excessively tunnelling it's due to 2 things:

1) You allow them to take tools back to their cells.
2) You don't let them have enough freedom in their day to day regime.

Freedom need and tools in their cells cause prisoners to start digging.
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby MMZ>Torak » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:03 pm

jenjenola wrote:Ever since alpha 34 I can't seem to be able to unearth any tunnels. I have 10 dog patrols covering my prison and they are turning up a lot of yellow flags in certain locations. Then I search cell blocks and do shakedowns but nothing gets found. I know there must be a tunnel in the location because of the overwhelming number of flags but multiple cell block searches and at least 5 shakedowns later I still haven't uncovered any tunnels. What am I doing wrong?!?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=473465322

Not sure how to get the pic url from steam so I added a link to the prison and there is the picture.


While it maybe an expensive answer, I've not had a prisoner escape via tunneling since I've done this:

1) Use at least one perimeter wall (more for higher security prisoners) to surround the prison block.
2) Bought extra plots of land around the prison, and then fenced in that area to the edge of the build-able space on the map.
3) Keep all large pipes as close to the interior of the prison as possible.
4) Dog patrols over the areas where there are large pipes.

That's not to say they don't try to tunnel, but it takes them so damn long they get caught.
Inge Jones
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Inge Jones » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:47 am

Pogmothoin, I am happy to accept that logic for my long-term medium and max sec prisoners, but my low-sec *would* be getting out soon if they simply enjoyed the huge amount of regime freedom and trust I give them and tunnelled LESS often than the ones who have a reason to escape! Until the game gets the tunnelling tuning right, or introduces some logic to the activity, I'd like to be able to turn it off.
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Couchmonster » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:23 pm

If you do not find a tunnel and you know where it is:

Go to 'Objects' and use the 'Disassemble Object' painter to kill every toilet in the Cell Block side where the tunnel is.
Chris mentioned that in the tunnel alpha video.
If you get rid of the toilet (it is always the toilet! :) ) the tunnel is found and you can uneath it.
Afterwards plant the toilets again and you have done it.
This happened to me on very rare occassions too.
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Pogmothoin
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby Pogmothoin » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:25 pm

Inge Jones wrote:Pogmothoin, I am happy to accept that logic for my long-term medium and max sec prisoners, but my low-sec *would* be getting out soon if they simply enjoyed the huge amount of regime freedom and trust I give them and tunnelled LESS often than the ones who have a reason to escape! Until the game gets the tunnelling tuning right, or introduces some logic to the activity, I'd like to be able to turn it off.


There isn't actually anything wrong with it that requires it to be turned off. Yes it's not easy to find a tunnel sometimes, but that has been greatly improved in this alpha (34) a long with the fact that it takes longer for multiple prisoners digging the same tunnel due to diminishing returns being added.

I have 400 min sec cells in my prison, I shake their cells down once a week, at most I find about 2 tools on that shake down, and occasionally there is one tunnel.

It's not true that min sec are more likely to tunnel. They are less aggressive than max/normal, and a normal guy will start fighting when upset, min sec doesn't really get that option so it festers until they get the chance to start digging. Like I say, you can practically stop them from being able to do it in the first place. Min sec's only way of acting out are to steal and dig, Min sec don't need guards to watch them, but that doesn't mean you should allow them to walk out of the canteen/workshops with tools.

As for sentence length, the fact that prisoners may be getting out in 6 months makes no difference, it certainly doesn't stop min sec prisoners in the real world from escaping so why should it in the game.
jenjenola
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby jenjenola » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:48 pm

Ok so I think I fixed my tunnelling issues. I increased the amount of free time the prisoners get and improved the environment and privacy needs. Then I added dog patrols in every cell block during the nighttime. I have far fewer prisoners attempting to tunnel and when they do my dog patrols discover the tunnel almost immediately. I also do a shakedown every couple of days and always find a staggering amount of contraband. I don't know how to limit the contraband - I have guards deployed in almost every room and metal detectors everywhere. I'm actually impressed by my prisoners' ability to sneak away with it.
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Re: Alpha 34 Tunnelling

Postby RedTear » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:57 pm

jenjenola wrote:Ok so I think I fixed my tunnelling issues. I increased the amount of free time the prisoners get and improved the environment and privacy needs. Then I added dog patrols in every cell block during the nighttime. I have far fewer prisoners attempting to tunnel and when they do my dog patrols discover the tunnel almost immediately. I also do a shakedown every couple of days and always find a staggering amount of contraband. I don't know how to limit the contraband - I have guards deployed in almost every room and metal detectors everywhere. I'm actually impressed by my prisoners' ability to sneak away with it.

Well, the intelligence tab shows you to trace back how it got there.

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