This game need an Economy, more EXCON less game designer plz

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Jasonmm92
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This game need an Economy, more EXCON less game designer plz

Postby Jasonmm92 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:52 pm

Lets get real here people.

EVERY PRISON IN THE WORLD HAS AN economy and its the #1 cause of friction.

1st concept is, Prisoners don't eat in the canteen , they eat in the cafeteria, a canteen is the place you go for luxury/comfort.

a. by its nature ALL prison food is BAD , you cant make powered eggs and potato's good , you cant make frozen veggies made 2 hours early good , it doesn't and cant happen, and cost $x per prisoner per day basis , NO prison in the world offers an upgraded menu , get rid of that shit , if you want something good to eat go to the canteen

b. canteen should be treated like laundry , you either have it or you don't , and everyone wants it , and some are willing to do anything to get it , thus my need more security AKA high risk

2nd concept is Money How do you get money. Well ..

Prisoners with jobs get paid
Low risk prisoners start with more than med and high risk
Med risk prisoners start with more than high risk
High risk prisoners start little or no money , making them upset , canteen isn't a must , there are plenty of poor people in prison, but it sure does help.
Prisoners with more family start with more money
Prisoners with less family start with less

3rd concept is the canteen should make the prison money. The more money ( aka work or family ) the prisoners have the more then spend , the more profitable your canteen is for your prison.

thanks Jay
Last edited by Jasonmm92 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:41 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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MAdMaN
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Re: This game need an Economy, more EXCON less game designer

Postby MAdMaN » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:05 pm

Jasonmm92 wrote:1st concept is, Prisoners don't eat in the cantina, they eat in the cafeteria, a cantina is the place you go for luxury/comfort.

It's a canteen not a cantina.
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Re: This game need an Economy, more EXCON less game designer

Postby Jasonmm92 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:23 pm

MAdMaN wrote:
Jasonmm92 wrote:1st concept is, Prisoners don't eat in the cantina, they eat in the cafeteria, a cantina is the place you go for luxury/comfort.

It's a canteen not a cantina.


lol yes that
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Postby stealthwang » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:16 pm

you're right a distinction between cafeterias (meal times) & canteen (retail to prisoners) should be possible. however this would require alot of work on the prisoner item ownership making it more complex than the designers may want.

what items other than higher quality food do you think should be available?

i dunno if you're right about the food situation in prisons across the world - sounds like your experience is in north america. the quality of food available in countries that believe in prisons as rehabilitation rather than punishment might surprise you.

perhaps it should be a choice if you allow prisoners to keep cash while in the system. i'm sure there are place across the world that restrict it due to the obvious underground market it enables.
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Postby MAdMaN » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:15 pm

Canteen is the British term for cafeteria.
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Postby paktsardines » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:57 am

Technically cafeteria is the American term for canteen.. ;)
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Postby Jasonmm92 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:49 pm

stealthwang wrote:you're right a distinction between cafeterias (meal times) & canteen (retail to prisoners) should be possible. however this would require a lot of work on the prisoner item ownership making it more complex than the designers may want.

what items other than higher quality food do you think should be available?


I was thinking keep it simple , treat canteen like laundry , then remove any bonuses from the 'upgraded meals' and add them to inmates that had or didn't have 'canteen'.

stealthwang wrote: i dunno if you're right about the food situation in prisons across the world - sounds like your experience is in north america. the quality of food available in countries that believe in prisons as rehabilitation rather than punishment might surprise you.


And while your correct , prison in Europe, Japan and Aussie have made great progress in the area you mentioned , South America , Africa , Eastern Europe , Asia, North America , and Central America , well don't.

stealthwang wrote: perhaps it should be a choice if you allow prisoners to keep cash while in the system. i'm sure there are place across the world that restrict it due to the obvious underground market it enables.


and this is also true , more money in your prison can also be a bad thing , cant wait for the 'cell phone' contra band to hit the game and corrupt guards !!

thanks for your reply , just my 2 cents , what do you think ?

PS I love this game.
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Postby victor.aabye » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:19 pm

stealthwang wrote:you're right a distinction between cafeterias (meal times) & canteen (retail to prisoners) should be possible. however this would require a lot of work on the prisoner item ownership making it more complex than the designers may want.

what items other than higher quality food do you think should be available?

i dunno if you're right about the food situation in prisons across the world - sounds like your experience is in north america. the quality of food available in countries that believe in prisons as rehabilitation rather than punishment might surprise you.

perhaps it should be a choice if you allow prisoners to keep cash while in the system. i'm sure there are place across the world that restrict it due to the obvious underground market it enables.


i come from denmark and here the prisoners can either make their own food or go to the canteen. and some places they got their own resturant. so i would agree that you think of north america. becouse here in europe prisoners are treated very well. the only thing they cant do is to go home :-)
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Postby Xoligy » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:29 pm

I believe the way it works is prisoners will have an account which family and friends can pay money into, the prisoner will then make a list of items they want and hand it to a guard and if its allowed in the prison it gets ordered.

As for prisoners with more family having more money i believe that to be incorrect, more family members does not mean more money everyone has different jobs and circumstances so the amount a prisoner should get should be a random variable between x and y on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis if something was to be added like this.
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Postby victor.aabye » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:54 pm

most of you talk about that prisoners should make money while they were working. i just want to know who should pay the prisoners. becouse if you pay the myourself you will not have any profit. and if they use them in the canteen then the money will just go in cirkles.
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Postby MAdMaN » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:05 pm

victor.aabye wrote:most of you talk about that prisoners should make money while they were working. i just want to know who should pay the prisoners. becouse if you pay the myourself you will not have any profit. and if they use them in the canteen then the money will just go in cirkles.

Money can come from two places; the items you sell (e.g. license plates) and money that would buy a professional that you replace with a prisoner (e.g. use a prisoner in the kitchen instead of hiring another cook).
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Postby victor.aabye » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:18 pm

MAdMaN wrote:
victor.aabye wrote:most of you talk about that prisoners should make money while they were working. i just want to know who should pay the prisoners. becouse if you pay the myourself you will not have any profit. and if they use them in the canteen then the money will just go in cirkles.

Money can come from two places; the items you sell (e.g. license plates) and money that would buy a professional that you replace with a prisoner (e.g. use a prisoner in the kitchen instead of hiring another cook).


yeah but if you pay the prisoners for making licens plates then there will be nothing for you. and then is it just a wast of time and money.
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Postby MAdMaN » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:49 pm

victor.aabye wrote:
MAdMaN wrote:
victor.aabye wrote:most of you talk about that prisoners should make money while they were working. i just want to know who should pay the prisoners. becouse if you pay the myourself you will not have any profit. and if they use them in the canteen then the money will just go in cirkles.

Money can come from two places; the items you sell (e.g. license plates) and money that would buy a professional that you replace with a prisoner (e.g. use a prisoner in the kitchen instead of hiring another cook).


yeah but if you pay the prisoners for making licens plates then there will be nothing for you. and then is it just a wast of time and money.

You don't pay them the whole of the amount you sell the plates for.
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Postby xander » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:51 pm

victor.aabye wrote:most of you talk about that prisoners should make money while they were working. i just want to know who should pay the prisoners. becouse if you pay the myourself you will not have any profit. and if they use them in the canteen then the money will just go in cirkles.

In a recent Moth story, it is noted that prisoners can earn money working in the prison, though not much. They are almost certainly paid by the prison itself. If my recollection is correct, the amount is something on the order of 19 cents per hour. The money earned working in the prison (along with any money from outside, say from family) is deposited into an account that can be used in the prison store. Items in the store are sold at a very large markup (again, I think I remember the storyteller saying that a $30 radio cost $42 in the prison store). As to money going in cirkles [sic], isn't that all money every does? Unless someone hordes it?

Hence I think that you are incorrect both from the perspective of realism and the perspective of gameplay. With respect to realism, prisoners often get paid and have access to supplies via a prison store. With respect to gameplay, there is nothing economy breaking, since you don't have to pay prisoners very much, and of course the money is going to circulate, as that is what money does.

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Postby TooDAMNMuch » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:41 am

i like the idea of having a commissary system in the game a lot to be honest, but i'd agree prisoners being able to carry their money around all the time is and probably should be too problematic for that to be the way it's done, at least in county there was a scheduled time once a week where you could order and then the next day receive your commissary purchases, you could also choose to opt for a prepaid debit card type thing to use in vending machines that would be accessible all the time but you had to ask the guard on duty for your card everytime you wanted to use it and if you tried to keep it in your cell was considered contraband.

so i guess vending machines and a commissary system is what i think would be best along with an option in the regime to schedule it possibly, besides, i think the challenge of scheduling and planning out a secure and safe time and area for it to take place would be a most satisfying challenge to some degree and would allow prisoners to expend money earned to give themselves a slight mood lifter with a bar of candy so long as you have a good work routine in your prison for them to earn money in the first place.

finally, i'd also think that it should be possible for visitors to deposit money for prisoners to use as well, not constantly and not consistently, but alas there's only some many jobs to go around in any prison anyway.
Last edited by TooDAMNMuch on Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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