What is wrong with the game performance ???? Need help!!!

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What is wrong with the game performance ???? Need help!!!

Postby saclet » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:55 am

Hello, I downloaded the alpha 10 for windows from Steam. But every time build a large prison which contains a lot of room for around 150 prisoners etc, it would cover the nearly the whole medium map. But after I do it and the number of prisoner increases to ~ 140 with ~ 100 guards and ~ 100 other staffs, the game runs very slow, it's freezes and CTD very often, recently I saw a video from a guy who had 201 prisoners riot on youtube with quite smooth performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujWthObALyg which made me feel weird about this ???
What's wrong with this game, does it use CPU for rendering instead of GPU ???? Because every time I play that game the GPU seem didn't work at all, It was quite cool and quiet.

My spec is AMD Phenom 2 x6 1090T Black Ed, GTX 670, GSkill 8GB RAM and SSD.

Can someone help me how to fix it, I like this game but slow, CTD and freeze are making me feel very bad.
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Postby MAdMaN » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:57 am

It's an alpha (phase of major game development). As such, the game has yet to be optimised and will contain numerous bugs.
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Postby saclet » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:01 pm

MAdMaN wrote:It's an alpha (phase of major game development). As such, the game has yet to be optimised and will contain numerous bugs.


Have you seen this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujWthObALyg? It has very large prison and a lot of prisoners but no sign of freezes or slow, but mine was about half that number but I'm suffering from CTD, Freezes and SLOW!

It's alpha but It can't be that difference.
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Postby dosmac640 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:45 pm

His game IS lagging, not sure how you're not seeing it. It lags for EVERYONE. This game is bottlenecking at the CPU.
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Postby saclet » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:55 pm

dosmac640 wrote:His game IS lagging, not sure how you're not seeing it. It lags for EVERYONE. This game is bottlenecking at the CPU.


I saw it, mine too but the problem is his fps still acceptable, but my FPS is always 5 fps right now, I'm feeling mad about this. :evil:
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Game performance

Postby william3889 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:07 pm

That was my video in the link, and honestly i think by the time it gets to around 100 prisoners, any cpu and video card it will start lagging. I have a i5 overclocked at 4.2 with a radeon 1850 2gb, and i get a fair amount of lagg at 80 right now with the new alpha. Mainly i think its the ability of the alpha to run multiple codes and jobs, especially a large amount at one time. You can notice a fps increase whenever the prisoners are sleeping or in my video (i set regime to all canteen) so theres no codes to run. 10-15 fps is acceptable for me and i maybe get 20 on a good day with 50-100 prisoners.
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Postby sausje » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:39 pm

Same here, running i7-2600k at 4.2 with dual HD6870, yet the game seems to only use 1 core, and not even at 70% or so when it's lagging to 5 fps or lower..
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Re: Game performance

Postby saclet » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:08 pm

william3889 wrote:That was my video in the link, and honestly i think by the time it gets to around 100 prisoners, any cpu and video card it will start lagging. I have a i5 overclocked at 4.2 with a radeon 1850 2gb, and i get a fair amount of lagg at 80 right now with the new alpha. Mainly i think its the ability of the alpha to run multiple codes and jobs, especially a large amount at one time. You can notice a fps increase whenever the prisoners are sleeping or in my video (i set regime to all canteen) so theres no codes to run. 10-15 fps is acceptable for me and i maybe get 20 on a good day with 50-100 prisoners.


There are 2 things which are preventing me to play this awesome game right now, low fps and I can't get rid of the bodies which are full of my prison atm.
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Postby shovat » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:32 am

saclet wrote:
MAdMaN wrote:It's an alpha (phase of major game development). As such, the game has yet to be optimised and will contain numerous bugs.


Have you seen this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujWthObALyg? It has very large prison and a lot of prisoners but no sign of freezes or slow, but mine was about half that number but I'm suffering from CTD, Freezes and SLOW!

It's alpha but It can't be that difference.


To answer the question we would need to know the hardware both of you are running. I would think the only way to fix this at the moment would be to cut down on the decisions per second (DPS if you want to confuse everyone) the AI needs to do. inspite of claims of multitasking computers over the ages they can only do one thing at a time, they just do it really fast. Technically you could multitask with the multiple core thing going on, but then you would have to split the RAM to each core cluster and then you are actually slower than you were before. RAM is everything.
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Postby saclet » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:51 am

shovat wrote:
saclet wrote:
MAdMaN wrote:It's an alpha (phase of major game development). As such, the game has yet to be optimised and will contain numerous bugs.


Have you seen this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujWthObALyg? It has very large prison and a lot of prisoners but no sign of freezes or slow, but mine was about half that number but I'm suffering from CTD, Freezes and SLOW!

It's alpha but It can't be that difference.


To answer the question we would need to know the hardware both of you are running. I would think the only way to fix this at the moment would be to cut down on the decisions per second (DPS if you want to confuse everyone) the AI needs to do. inspite of claims of multitasking computers over the ages they can only do one thing at a time, they just do it really fast. Technically you could multitask with the multiple core thing going on, but then you would have to split the RAM to each core cluster and then you are actually slower than you were before. RAM is everything.


Here is mine

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 6/7/2013, 18:52:51

Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_rtm.101119-1850)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: To be filled by O.E.M.
System Model: To be filled by O.E.M.
BIOS: BIOS Date: 10/20/10 09:47:36 Ver: 08.00.10
Processor: AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor (6 CPUs), ~3.2GHz
Memory: 8192MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 8154MB RAM
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce GTX 670
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1189&SUBSYS_26783842&REV_A1
Display Memory: 4042 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1994 MB
Shared Memory: 2047 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
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Postby shovat » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:07 am

My guess is if you upgraded to 16GB of ram performance would increase. However, I have 16GB of ram and once I cross the ~90 prisoner threshold there is a noticeable decrease in performance. Mostly in the fact that it takes a while for some sprites to do what they intend to do, as an example 1 in game hour for a prisoner to go from intending to push a laundry cart to actually pushing it, Workers standing around not doing anything, and prisoners taking a seat on a bench while mopping because the mopping job took to long to finish so they sat down while mopping. Which of course causes an error which does not fix itself until session change (work to free time) or I take apart the bench.

I'm afraid there is no cure atm as far as I know.

edit: running windows 8 because I'm to lazy to install windows 7, accidentally deleted the line >.<

Version 6.2.9200 Build 9200
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name BILLY
System Manufacturer Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model GA-78LMT-USB3
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU
Processor AMD FX(tm)-8120 Eight-Core Processor, 3100 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F2, 8/10/2012
SMBIOS Version 2.4
Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Total Physical Memory 16.0 GB
Available Physical Memory 14.3 GB
Total Virtual Memory 18.2 GB
Available Virtual Memory 16.0 GB

My specs for comparison.
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Postby saclet » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:54 am

shovat wrote:My guess is if you upgraded to 16GB of ram performance would increase. However, I have 16GB of ram and once I cross the ~90 prisoner threshold there is a noticeable decrease in performance. Mostly in the fact that it takes a while for some sprites to do what they intend to do, as an example 1 in game hour for a prisoner to go from intending to push a laundry cart to actually pushing it, Workers standing around not doing anything, and prisoners taking a seat on a bench while mopping because the mopping job took to long to finish so they sat down while mopping. Which of course causes an error which does not fix itself until session change (work to free time) or I take apart the bench.

I'm afraid there is no cure atm as far as I know.

edit: running windows 8 because I'm to lazy to install windows 7, accidentally deleted the line >.<

Version 6.2.9200 Build 9200
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name BILLY
System Manufacturer Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model GA-78LMT-USB3
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU
Processor AMD FX(tm)-8120 Eight-Core Processor, 3100 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F2, 8/10/2012
SMBIOS Version 2.4
Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Total Physical Memory 16.0 GB
Available Physical Memory 14.3 GB
Total Virtual Memory 18.2 GB
Available Virtual Memory 16.0 GB

My specs for comparison.


I don't think increase amount of ram will help because right now I'm playing my saved file which has medium map with a very large prison covers all corners of the map, there are a big riot and fires at the same time, people are being burned alive (including 5 family visitors) it's very weird that fires kill everyone except prisoners, guards and doctors. But right now this game only use 448 MB Ram.
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Postby shovat » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:16 am

saclet wrote:
shovat wrote:My guess is if you upgraded to 16GB of ram performance would increase. However, I have 16GB of ram and once I cross the ~90 prisoner threshold there is a noticeable decrease in performance. Mostly in the fact that it takes a while for some sprites to do what they intend to do, as an example 1 in game hour for a prisoner to go from intending to push a laundry cart to actually pushing it, Workers standing around not doing anything, and prisoners taking a seat on a bench while mopping because the mopping job took to long to finish so they sat down while mopping. Which of course causes an error which does not fix itself until session change (work to free time) or I take apart the bench.

I'm afraid there is no cure atm as far as I know.

edit: running windows 8 because I'm to lazy to install windows 7, accidentally deleted the line >.<

Version 6.2.9200 Build 9200
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name BILLY
System Manufacturer Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model GA-78LMT-USB3
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU
Processor AMD FX(tm)-8120 Eight-Core Processor, 3100 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F2, 8/10/2012
SMBIOS Version 2.4
Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Total Physical Memory 16.0 GB
Available Physical Memory 14.3 GB
Total Virtual Memory 18.2 GB
Available Virtual Memory 16.0 GB

My specs for comparison.


I don't think increase amount of ram will help because right now I'm playing my saved file which has medium map with a very large prison covers all corners of the map, there are a big riot and fires at the same time, people are being burned alive (including 5 family visitors) it's very weird that fires kill everyone except prisoners, guards and doctors. But right now this game only use 448 MB Ram.


RAM is the cheapest and most effective way to improve overall computer performance period dot end of story. It will always help because it gives your computer a bigger brain to think with, until the power goes out then it remembers nothing.
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Postby saclet » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:54 am

shovat wrote:
saclet wrote:
shovat wrote:My guess is if you upgraded to 16GB of ram performance would increase. However, I have 16GB of ram and once I cross the ~90 prisoner threshold there is a noticeable decrease in performance. Mostly in the fact that it takes a while for some sprites to do what they intend to do, as an example 1 in game hour for a prisoner to go from intending to push a laundry cart to actually pushing it, Workers standing around not doing anything, and prisoners taking a seat on a bench while mopping because the mopping job took to long to finish so they sat down while mopping. Which of course causes an error which does not fix itself until session change (work to free time) or I take apart the bench.

I'm afraid there is no cure atm as far as I know.

edit: running windows 8 because I'm to lazy to install windows 7, accidentally deleted the line >.<

Version 6.2.9200 Build 9200
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name BILLY
System Manufacturer Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model GA-78LMT-USB3
System Type x64-based PC
System SKU
Processor AMD FX(tm)-8120 Eight-Core Processor, 3100 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F2, 8/10/2012
SMBIOS Version 2.4
Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Total Physical Memory 16.0 GB
Available Physical Memory 14.3 GB
Total Virtual Memory 18.2 GB
Available Virtual Memory 16.0 GB

My specs for comparison.


I don't think increase amount of ram will help because right now I'm playing my saved file which has medium map with a very large prison covers all corners of the map, there are a big riot and fires at the same time, people are being burned alive (including 5 family visitors) it's very weird that fires kill everyone except prisoners, guards and doctors. But right now this game only use 448 MB Ram.


RAM is the cheapest and most effective way to improve overall computer performance period dot end of story. It will always help because it gives your computer a bigger brain to think with, until the power goes out then it remembers nothing.


RAM is cheap, it's true. But what is the point of "bigger brain" if you will never use it? Since almost every games are 32 bit so technically they can't use more than 4GB Ram. Like a year ago someone posted a mod which made Skyrim can use more than 4 GB, when it was using no more than 2GB, then after installing the mod, Skyrim always crash every time it use more than 2.5 GB of ram. However buying good Ram with good speed will help a lot, but my Ram is 8 GB (2x 4GB) with 2100 mhz, so I don't really need to care about that section atm. Because I still can play BF 3 at Ultra setting without any freeze or lag, only this game is acting weird so far.
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Postby paktsardines » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:45 am

Because I still can play BF 3 at Ultra setting without any freeze or lag, only this game is acting weird so far.


It's not acting weird. When you're playing BF3 your cpu is not doing much at all - almost all of the game is off-loaded to your graphics card because the game is little more than polygons, collisions and physics. PA is far more CPU intensive [and complex] than BF3 because caculating the needs, paths, actions and interactions of all your prisoners _every frame_ is very expensive in terms of CPU cycles (stuff not handled by your graphics card). In fact, i'd be surprised if this isn't [currently] an exponential operation (in algorithm terms O(n^2)) every frame. This means if you have 10 prisoners there are ~100 calculations* per frame, but if there are 100 prisoners there are 10,000 calculations per frame.

In your instance you have 340 occupants (prisoners + staff + guards). That's 115,600 calculations per frame. Remembering ~30 frames per second is 'playable', then you have nearly 3.5 million calculations per second just to move your prisoners around the screen. Take that, BF3!





* 'operations' is probably a better term to use in place of calculations.


edit: It's clear your main problem is too many people in your prison. The first thing I'd do is fire half of your staff, at the minimum. 100 guards for 150 prisoners is pointless when 20-30 would do the same job. Similarly with your other staff. There's no real need for more than 10 workers, two janitors, two gardeners and your offices. That's ~20 non-guard staff total.

Shove these new figures into the calculations above and you now have 140 prisoners + 30 guards (still over-kill) + 20 staff = 190 occupants. That's now 36,100 calculations per frame. Therefore your frame rate should improve by more than 300% ( (115600/36100) * 100) without adversely affecting your prison. *fingers crossed*

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