Only guards can open doors A7

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muunkie
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Only guards can open doors A7

Postby muunkie » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Im not liking the "need guards to open doors thingy" in the latest build, off course a prison should be able to decide if the inmates could be able to open certain doors or not.

If this is going to be in the full game the patrol function must work with stationary guards and the one closest to the door should always be the one to open it.

I will be staying with A6 until it works better.
Niellzje
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Postby Niellzje » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:39 pm

Take wooden doors?
steven2805
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Postby steven2805 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:16 pm

I swear it's a logistics nightmare, I have just had to add another 30% staff members and re-work the 6 door entry system.

Perhaps an idea could solve this issue.

Have 2 sets of doors, One powered and the other manual.

Powered doors can be opened from the CCTV room (as long as a guard is present).
However the disadvantage could be losing control of the CCTV to inmates would result in an open prison, plus make them 2 or even 3 times the price of a manual door and they require power plus one CCTV slot.

Manual doors could be reserved for starting out or areas you really can afford to lose eg front door or entrance to CCTV room.

It feels so counter productive at the moment with guards who are running around opening doors, I may as well partner up my works and cooks with there own personnel guard or door opener.

I think the main issue is that the AI simply isn't "smart enough" to handle everything efficiently and with the limited control we have there isn't much we can do about it. For example cooks all leaving at random times, if they left together at a consistent time I could have a guard waiting to let them out and back in again. A guard should be able to leave his post to open a door on his cell block...

Don't get me wrong I totally see why this has been done, adding countless doors just to stop people escaping is silly. But there must be a better option
Evil Night
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Postby Evil Night » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:45 pm

I'd like to see the option for "staff only doors" where your general staff have a set of keys that can open lower level doors that you set, doors that you'd have between say the kitchen and canteen.
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Postby captainazul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:04 am

I think some kind of concession definitely needs to be made as regards workmen- obviously prison construction is ongoing even after you start receiving prisoners, and trying to keep the worksites secure AND get workmen in and out constantly as they go to and from the delivery area for each object is an absolute nightmare.

For sake of example, I had my basic layout built by the time the first load of prisoners showed up, and I began to build a cell block. It quickly became a logistical nightmare and I had four riots in about five minutes because all the guards (I had about 6 of them) were off opening doors instead of minding the prisoners. I know there are a few ways to reduce the problem somewhat but I agree with the above suggestion- don't see why the staff shouldn't have keys to the doors. Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of the guards needing to open doors, to a point. Perhaps there could be a combination of locked doors and permissions? Staff have their own keys, but only a guard can open doors for the prisoners to move around? That would let the staff move freely while still letting the guards keep control of prisoner movement...
muunkie
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Postby muunkie » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:22 am

It would work if you could have stationary guards at each door but until then i think a quick fix to get rid of this would be in order.
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:52 am

Why don't you be a little more open-minded? It has been less than a day -- that's barely enough time to play the game, let alone try more than a few of the vast number of design strategies this introduces.

Perhaps it's the need to think more that has you so resistant to change...
dikkjo
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Postby dikkjo » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:54 am

muunkie wrote:It would work if you could have stationary guards at each door but until then i think a quick fix to get rid of this would be in order.


Second that. we should have a deployment option to designate door's keepers.
Actually I have like 5 to 7 guards in and around the kitchen just to open doors for the cooks and still can't keep up with the demands!
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:06 pm

Why don't you make the doors out the back of the kitchen wooden? Then your cooks can go to and from storage when they want and only need a guard when it's time to serve food.
dikkjo
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Postby dikkjo » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:08 pm

paktsardines wrote:Why don't you be a little more open-minded? It has been less than a day -- that's barely enough time to play the game, let alone try more than a few of the vast number of design strategies this introduces.

Perhaps it's the need to think more that has you so resistant to change...



The only concern I have, is with cooks which needs to cross security zones to accomplish their work.
After dismantling most of the doors my cooks only needs to pass through 2 doors, 1 to get on the delivery area and 1 for the canteen,
despite the ratio 7 guards for 2 doors, cooks still wait most of their time for someone to open the door.

I may be missing something, after all i bought the game yesterday :P
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paktsardines
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Postby paktsardines » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:27 pm

I think you'll find that if you put a serving table in your canteen along the length of a wall that is next to your kitchen, the cooks will pass food right through the wall, onto the serving table like a 'service window'. Then they only need the door unlocked to clean up.
muunkie
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Postby muunkie » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:08 pm

paktsardines wrote:Why don't you be a little more open-minded? It has been less than a day -- that's barely enough time to play the game, let alone try more than a few of the vast number of design strategies this introduces.

Perhaps it's the need to think more that has you so resistant to change...


The reason i'm a bit grumpy isn't because I'm resistant to change, it because i cant make it work.
For example i have lots of guards around the kitchen but the guard who gets the job of opening the door is never the closest one so the guards are just running around disorientated opening doors at the other end of the prison.

My prison that i've worked on for a week just went to shit because i only managed to serve 5% of 100 prisoners who then try'd to eat each other.
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Daimaju
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Postby Daimaju » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:29 am

muunkie wrote:
paktsardines wrote:Why don't you be a little more open-minded? It has been less than a day -- that's barely enough time to play the game, let alone try more than a few of the vast number of design strategies this introduces.

Perhaps it's the need to think more that has you so resistant to change...


The reason i'm a bit grumpy isn't because I'm resistant to change, it because i cant make it work.
For example i have lots of guards around the kitchen but the guard who gets the job of opening the door is never the closest one so the guards are just running around disorientated opening doors at the other end of the prison.

My prison that i've worked on for a week just went to shit because i only managed to serve 5% of 100 prisoners who then try'd to eat each other.


This.
I feel the same and made the same experiences.
With the stupid AI behaviour at the moment, this system is more a punishment than helpful and just doesnt work as intended. The general idea is great - it just need some fixing :wink:
Renalco
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Better

Postby Renalco » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:54 pm

SPAM!
zoogelsnof
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Postby zoogelsnof » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:55 pm

I'm really loving the new feature. I think it just makes more sense, having to constantly make the trade off between security and ease. It has caused me to *entirely* re-do my designs to really get all the staff" stuff in one area (storage, cooking, offices, etc) and then fill it with wooden doors and one or two points of prison door entry.

I agree it's a huge change, but for me, it's one that makes *way* more sense, and that I like. I do agree, though, that it seems odd that the delivery area where prisoners come in, and where stuff comes in, is the same. It seems like the prisoners should be delivered a bit more "securely" so that workmen etc can grab building materials and run around the edges to a job site without going through the entire prison to get there.

I suppose the long and short would be that I'm really enjoying the way the alpha keeps changing things up. This game becomes a different game every time they update it, and I only bought one game!

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