The market-pipeline for software nowadays usually is Youtube/GamingSite->Torrent->Buy if it is was what you were looking for.
It sort of seems weird that modern people would buy stuff before knowing exactly what it is, how it works and how well it fits their needs. It is also the only way of making sure developing companies really tries. And when they try and do well it creates a ripple-effect that never existed before torrents and the extremely effective word to mouth of internetz, increasing turnover many times.
Fighting Piracy
Moderator: NBJeff
As much as I KNOW I will get flak for this, I have a hard time believing anyone when they try to justify their piracy by claiming they'll buy it if they like it. I don't personally know a SINGLE person who's ever gone through with it. I'm sorry but I think the people who do are very much in the minority.
I don't care about piracy frankly, so long as you don't try to make it out to be your god given right. That's when it ticks me off. It won't be stopped and there's no proof that a pirated copy is always a lost sale since it's likely they weren't buying it in the first place.
Pirate stuff, whatever, just don't preach on like you're an enlightened freedom fighter or whatever and admit you just don't want to play by the rules.
(Disclaimer: "you" in a general sense, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular. Although if you think it is then you may wanna think about why.
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I don't care about piracy frankly, so long as you don't try to make it out to be your god given right. That's when it ticks me off. It won't be stopped and there's no proof that a pirated copy is always a lost sale since it's likely they weren't buying it in the first place.
Pirate stuff, whatever, just don't preach on like you're an enlightened freedom fighter or whatever and admit you just don't want to play by the rules.
(Disclaimer: "you" in a general sense, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular. Although if you think it is then you may wanna think about why.
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FlamingWheel
- level1
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:13 pm
Pleased to meet you Disc10, I download games and various other media through torrents and what not and have actually torrented Prison Architect.
I'll be the first person you know that actively pirates every piece of digital media I'm interested in and then buys whatever media I support.
I've bought about half the games I torrented in the past, a few games are yet to be bought (Prison Architect is one of them as I only purchase using iDeal through Steam) and most other that remain are simply of no interest to me.
In the past I used to go to stores and buy things based on how the cover looked or rarely by seeing videos of it.
The thing is, these never show how the game really is in your hands and how much fun it is. I wasted so much money on music, movies and games that piracy now prevents happening. Even demo's don't work, they just give a half-assed impression of what could be.
I realize that not everybody is like this. Many pirates are but there are some that pirate because they want to spend their money elsewhere or because they simply don't want to pay at all.
The thing is, they still spread word about the game if it's worth mentioning and it's not like companies actively lose much money on these kinds of pirates because they most likely wont buy the product if not available illegally.
In any case, pleased to meet you. I suspect you must be from an older generation then mine, but that is quite all right.
I'll be the first person you know that actively pirates every piece of digital media I'm interested in and then buys whatever media I support.
I've bought about half the games I torrented in the past, a few games are yet to be bought (Prison Architect is one of them as I only purchase using iDeal through Steam) and most other that remain are simply of no interest to me.
In the past I used to go to stores and buy things based on how the cover looked or rarely by seeing videos of it.
The thing is, these never show how the game really is in your hands and how much fun it is. I wasted so much money on music, movies and games that piracy now prevents happening. Even demo's don't work, they just give a half-assed impression of what could be.
I realize that not everybody is like this. Many pirates are but there are some that pirate because they want to spend their money elsewhere or because they simply don't want to pay at all.
The thing is, they still spread word about the game if it's worth mentioning and it's not like companies actively lose much money on these kinds of pirates because they most likely wont buy the product if not available illegally.
In any case, pleased to meet you. I suspect you must be from an older generation then mine, but that is quite all right.
FlamingWheel wrote:Pleased to meet you Disc10, I download games and various other media through torrents and what not and have actually torrented Prison Architect.
I'll be the first person you know that actively pirates every piece of digital media I'm interested in and then buys whatever media I support.
I've bought about half the games I torrented in the past, a few games are yet to be bought (Prison Architect is one of them as I only purchase using iDeal through Steam) and most other that remain are simply of no interest to me.
In the past I used to go to stores and buy things based on how the cover looked or rarely by seeing videos of it.
The thing is, these never show how the game really is in your hands and how much fun it is. I wasted so much money on music, movies and games that piracy now prevents happening. Even demo's don't work, they just give a half-assed impression of what could be.
I realize that not everybody is like this. Many pirates are but there are some that pirate because they want to spend their money elsewhere or because they simply don't want to pay at all.
The thing is, they still spread word about the game if it's worth mentioning and it's not like companies actively lose much money on these kinds of pirates because they most likely wont buy the product if not available illegally.
In any case, pleased to meet you. I suspect you must be from an older generation then mine, but that is quite all right.
That is exactly the point with digital media! Where in your life have you ever walked into a retail store picked up and item you might like, walked out and when the security guard tries to stop you, you just say: "Don't worry I'll be back if I like it otherwise you just won't see me again.". Why should a piece of digitally distributed content be any different! Fact of the matter is your breaking the law! Dim witted people like you who can't think for themselves are going to be the reason developers/ publishers move away from digital distribution ergo I have to get of my fat ass and actually go to the store again so snap too! As for other people who have said that the price is too steep . . . Have you ever in your sad little life made a game? Do you know how hard it is, how much effort goes into it? Go do that and then you can come back and complain again!
I pirated mine as well. As stated above, 30 bucks is a lot for a game in alpha. I tried the pirated version and bought it later that week.
One of my friends is still playing on the pirated version, he doesn't know if he wants to buy it yet. He's waiting to see it evolve first.
If it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't have bought it, my brother wouldn't have bought it, and my 3 friends wouldn't have bought it.
That's 5 people right there, gained through piracy. 6 If my other friend decides to buy it.
Piracy doesn't kill gaming, or the companies behind it. The bad games they create kills their product because people pirate it, find out it sucks, and then don't buy it (same for movies and TV series and whatnot).
One of my friends is still playing on the pirated version, he doesn't know if he wants to buy it yet. He's waiting to see it evolve first.
If it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't have bought it, my brother wouldn't have bought it, and my 3 friends wouldn't have bought it.
That's 5 people right there, gained through piracy. 6 If my other friend decides to buy it.
Piracy doesn't kill gaming, or the companies behind it. The bad games they create kills their product because people pirate it, find out it sucks, and then don't buy it (same for movies and TV series and whatnot).
Cr0wding wrote:I pirated mine as well. As stated above, 30 bucks is a lot for a game in alpha. I tried the pirated version and bought it later that week.
One of my friends is still playing on the pirated version, he doesn't know if he wants to buy it yet. He's waiting to see it evolve first.
If it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't have bought it, my brother wouldn't have bought it, and my 3 friends wouldn't have bought it.
That's 5 people right there, gained through piracy. 6 If my other friend decides to buy it.
Piracy doesn't kill gaming, or the companies behind it. The bad games they create kills their product because people pirate it, find out it sucks, and then don't buy it (same for movies and TV series and whatnot).
So what your saying is we should release all the robbers and shoplifters because it's alright they were just trying it they were going to buy it if they liked it. There is absolutly no distinction between physical theft and digital theft they are the exact same thing! Think about it this way when you want a new part for your computer but you can't afford it or don't know if it is the right purchase you don't walk into the store grab the part you want and if you like it you come back and pay for it or else they just never see you again! Besides how dare you demand that somebody let you have their property before you're willing to pay them for it, a game is just like any other product, X person has put their blood sweat and tears into this thing and you think you have some kind of right to take it from them!
Medens wrote:Cr0wding wrote:I pirated mine as well. As stated above, 30 bucks is a lot for a game in alpha. I tried the pirated version and bought it later that week.
One of my friends is still playing on the pirated version, he doesn't know if he wants to buy it yet. He's waiting to see it evolve first.
If it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't have bought it, my brother wouldn't have bought it, and my 3 friends wouldn't have bought it.
That's 5 people right there, gained through piracy. 6 If my other friend decides to buy it.
Piracy doesn't kill gaming, or the companies behind it. The bad games they create kills their product because people pirate it, find out it sucks, and then don't buy it (same for movies and TV series and whatnot).
So what your saying is we should release all the robbers and shoplifters because it's alright they were just trying it they were going to buy it if they liked it. There is absolutly no distinction between physical theft and digital theft they are the exact same thing! Think about it this way when you want a new part for your computer but you can't afford it or don't know if it is the right purchase you don't walk into the store grab the part you want and if you like it you come back and pay for it or else they just never see you again! Besides how dare you demand that somebody let you have their property before you're willing to pay them for it, a game is just like any other product, X person has put their blood sweat and tears into this thing and you think you have some kind of right to take it from them!
That's not what I'm saying at all.
The reason people like myself pirate movies and games is because of the quality of them in the recent years. I used to pay for my games and movies right off the bat, but since a few years a lot of games and movies have been released in a terrible condition. The big companies like EA and such spend a lot of money on advertisement, and then make the developer create a product within a set timeframe which puts the quality of the game way behind. Movies look awesome in trailers, and appear to be shit afterwards.
In addition, I used to buy my games in stores. Stores where I could try my games before buying them. When I buy a bike, I try that bike. When I buy a television, I try that television. When you buy a game, you pay before you really know what you have. Sure, there's refund policies, but those are a hassle most of the time. It's easier - and faster - to just pirate it first, try the game or take a look at the movie, and then buy it if you're pleased. A robber or shoplifter takes something from a shop to steal that item. If someone takes a bike but doesn't return it, it's theft. When someone tries a bike in a store and brings it back because he isn't pleased, it's not stealing.
And I didn't take anything from anyone, I paid for my product. But I paid for it after I tried their product, not before. And I didn't demand anything, I just said that I tried the game first. Where do you see me demanding anything?
Now, if I'd pirate this product, and then never pay for it but still play it, then you can talk about calling me a thief.
EDIT: I'd like to specifically point out that in retail stores you can almost always try a product before you buy it. When you buy clothes, you can try them on. When you buy a couch, you can sit on it. When you buy a digital game, there's almost never a way of trying it, except for piracy. Nobody brings out demo's anymore. Just fancy screenshots, videos (mostly cinematic, not actual gameplay) and - as FlamingWheel already said - cover art. I want to know what I buy, not buy blindly. Just because Piracy is illegal doesn't make it a bad thing (this sounds slightly retarded, but there's cases of things being made illegal because of "proof" that now is incorrect, but the government doesn't want to change the law. A good example would be Cannabis, I suppose.)
Anyway, not everyone that pirates things is a thief.
Firstly, I'm assuming your suggestion that the quality of games/movies in recent year has been on a decline isn't actually based on any quantifiable data ergo it's your subjective opinion and thus means absolutly zero.
Secondly, your premise that people only try movies and then they buy them is complete and utter bull! Would the US film industry currently be losing 6.1 billion to piracy if people were actually buying the movies? How often do you really watch a movie more than once i.e. film + game piracy is almost nothing like trying the bike in the store because spare multiplayer games films/games are almost always a once off thing, so don't even try to delude people with your utopian view on film/game piracy.
Thirdly, where in your life have you ever seen a store which lets you take the games home and play them before you buy them. If you're refering to those instances in which you use to be able to play like one mission in store, well the fact of the matter is playing the game for 10 minutes hardly allows for a thorough analysis of the product. In addition to this I highly doubt that when people pirate a game they play it for 10 minutes and then go off and buy it so those stations where you get to try the game in store can hardly be compared to piracy. Besides if you're really so concerend with seeing what the game is like before you buy it there are almost always LP + reviews on youtube so you really have no reason to pirate the games.
Fourthly, as for the whole robber/shoplifter thing I'll go back to my point about the 6.1 billion loss of revenue in the US film industry. This figure hardly supports your utopian ideas that " they buy the movies/games if they like them" in fact it just goes to prove that your main premise if total bull! What your doing is taking your own action and saying because I act this way the majority of other people must act this way too. Which unfortunatly just isn't the case and if you want to stand by your view that people buy the movies/games if they like them why don't you get some data/facts which actually support your view.
My fith and final point, by pirating your still taking something from somebody else, even though it's essentially just a bunch of zeroes and ones it's still somebody elses physical property that your essentially walking up to taking from them and saying I'll be back if I like your product where would you do this in a store, I'm not talking about switching on the tv in the store or taking the bike for a spin I'm talking about physically taking the product to your house and using it for an extended period of time!
PS. Please think about what you post before you post it, I really don't want to sit here and tell you the blatantly obvious. If you don't actually have something which supports your claims then please don't make them ( your own opinion is not support for a claim).
PPS. In fact everybody that pirates something is a theif and should be dealt with as such! I don't care what your eventual intentions are once you find out that you like the game it is still theft! Besides what gives you the right to be allowed to pirate the game/ try it before you buy it but all those other people who are law abbiding have to take the plundge and just buy the game. People who pirate games/films are scum!
Secondly, your premise that people only try movies and then they buy them is complete and utter bull! Would the US film industry currently be losing 6.1 billion to piracy if people were actually buying the movies? How often do you really watch a movie more than once i.e. film + game piracy is almost nothing like trying the bike in the store because spare multiplayer games films/games are almost always a once off thing, so don't even try to delude people with your utopian view on film/game piracy.
Thirdly, where in your life have you ever seen a store which lets you take the games home and play them before you buy them. If you're refering to those instances in which you use to be able to play like one mission in store, well the fact of the matter is playing the game for 10 minutes hardly allows for a thorough analysis of the product. In addition to this I highly doubt that when people pirate a game they play it for 10 minutes and then go off and buy it so those stations where you get to try the game in store can hardly be compared to piracy. Besides if you're really so concerend with seeing what the game is like before you buy it there are almost always LP + reviews on youtube so you really have no reason to pirate the games.
Fourthly, as for the whole robber/shoplifter thing I'll go back to my point about the 6.1 billion loss of revenue in the US film industry. This figure hardly supports your utopian ideas that " they buy the movies/games if they like them" in fact it just goes to prove that your main premise if total bull! What your doing is taking your own action and saying because I act this way the majority of other people must act this way too. Which unfortunatly just isn't the case and if you want to stand by your view that people buy the movies/games if they like them why don't you get some data/facts which actually support your view.
My fith and final point, by pirating your still taking something from somebody else, even though it's essentially just a bunch of zeroes and ones it's still somebody elses physical property that your essentially walking up to taking from them and saying I'll be back if I like your product where would you do this in a store, I'm not talking about switching on the tv in the store or taking the bike for a spin I'm talking about physically taking the product to your house and using it for an extended period of time!
PS. Please think about what you post before you post it, I really don't want to sit here and tell you the blatantly obvious. If you don't actually have something which supports your claims then please don't make them ( your own opinion is not support for a claim).
PPS. In fact everybody that pirates something is a theif and should be dealt with as such! I don't care what your eventual intentions are once you find out that you like the game it is still theft! Besides what gives you the right to be allowed to pirate the game/ try it before you buy it but all those other people who are law abbiding have to take the plundge and just buy the game. People who pirate games/films are scum!
Medens wrote:Firstly, I'm assuming your suggestion that the quality of games/movies in recent year has been on a decline isn't actually based on any quantifiable data ergo it's your subjective opinion and thus means absolutly zero.
Of course that's based on my opinion. I find that movies have gone downhill. Not all of them of course, but in general I find it so. Something like that is never a fact, because they're always opinions. A movie is never good or bad, a movie is found good or bad by people and their opinions.
Medens wrote:Secondly, your premise that people only try movies and then they buy them is complete and utter bull! Would the US film industry currently be losing 6.1 billion to piracy if people were actually buying the movies? How often do you really watch a movie more than once i.e. film + game piracy is almost nothing like trying the bike in the store because spare multiplayer games films/games are almost always a once off thing, so don't even try to delude people with your utopian view on film/game piracy.
Can you please link me your source of the 6.1 billion loss due to piracy? Because if that is the amount of money being downloaded online, it's not actual loss of income. There's a group of people that download because they can get it for free, and don't intend to pay at all (this is bad, I agree on that). But that group of people has a part that wouldn't buy it anyway, and therefore a company doesn't lose that money (they never would've had it). I'm not saying that 6.1 billion in loss is not correct, but I'd like to read the source. And no I'm not going to google evidence that you bring up in the first place.
Medens wrote:Thirdly, where in your life have you ever seen a store which lets you take the games home and play them before you buy them. If you're refering to those instances in which you use to be able to play like one mission in store, well the fact of the matter is playing the game for 10 minutes hardly allows for a thorough analysis of the product. In addition to this I highly doubt that when people pirate a game they play it for 10 minutes and then go off and buy it so those stations where you get to try the game in store can hardly be compared to piracy. Besides if you're really so concerend with seeing what the game is like before you buy it there are almost always LP + reviews on youtube so you really have no reason to pirate the games.
I'm not talking about taking things home, I'm talking about trying things before you buy them. Whether that is a 10 minute first level of a game, or a 5 minute sit on a couch. Or even 10 seconds of fitting some pants doesn't matter. It allows me to try a product, and then decide to buy it. A review is nice, but it's someone's opinion, it has value, but nothing is as good as your own. If my friend tries a couch and says "Hey man, this is a nice couch. You should buy it." I don't just buy it. I try it myself.
Medens wrote:Fourthly, as for the whole robber/shoplifter thing I'll go back to my point about the 6.1 billion loss of revenue in the US film industry. This figure hardly supports your utopian ideas that " they buy the movies/games if they like them" in fact it just goes to prove that your main premise if total bull! What your doing is taking your own action and saying because I act this way the majority of other people must act this way too. Which unfortunatly just isn't the case and if you want to stand by your view that people buy the movies/games if they like them why don't you get some data/facts which actually support your view.
All I said that it is what I do. I did say "others like me" and not "other people that download/pirate games". I know that there's a group that takes it and just never pays. That group is a bad group, and I agree that that is theft. What I do is considered theft by law, but my intentions are different. Aside of the fact that it's allowed to download in my country. I disagree with that piracy itself is a bad thing, there's just a group that is bad. You can't act on everyone based on a subgroup. Whether that's the majority or not doesn't (or perhaps shouldn't) matter.
Medens wrote:My fith and final point, by pirating your still taking something from somebody else, even though it's essentially just a bunch of zeroes and ones it's still somebody elses physical property that your essentially walking up to taking from them and saying I'll be back if I like your product where would you do this in a store, I'm not talking about switching on the tv in the store or taking the bike for a spin I'm talking about physically taking the product to your house and using it for an extended period of time!
I don't see why you compare what I do to taking a product home try it for an extended period of time. What I did was download it, try it for an hour or two, and then buy it. Of course two hours is long, but I buy the product so it doesn't matter. The product doesn't even degrade, and I didn't take ANYTHING from Introversion whatsoever. Nobody lost anything due to my actions.
Medens wrote:PS. Please think about what you post before you post it, I really don't want to sit here and tell you the blatantly obvious. If you don't actually have something which supports your claims then please don't make them ( your own opinion is not support for a claim).
PPS. In fact everybody that pirates something is a theif and should be dealt with as such! I don't care what your eventual intentions are once you find out that you like the game it is still theft! Besides what gives you the right to be allowed to pirate the game/ try it before you buy it but all those other people who are law abbiding have to take the plundge and just buy the game. People who pirate games/films are scum!
Are you implying you are right and I'm wrong? Based on what? Your knowledge about this? Your opinion? I think you're completely wrong on the subject. It's as if you're saying "all pirates are bad", which feels a lot like "all black people are bad".
You're saying I'm scum because I tried a game before buying it, even though otherwise I would've never bought it? Why exactly is what I do a bad thing? Who loses anything by my actions? Nobody. Nobody loses a damn thing. In fact, everybody gained from it. IV got a customer (multiple, even), I got a game, my friends got a game, and some website got a little bit of traffic.
When someone steals something, you take something from someone and don't give it back, nor do you compensate for the loss.
When you pirate something, you copy someone's property. He already has it, now you have it too. This means that nobody lost something. If it was supposed to be paid for and you do not pay, THEN it's theft. I did pay, my friends paid. Others paid.
And yes, this is all based on my own opinion and experiences. Of course it is, I don't need facts to justify what I do.
Also, I think we should drop this discussion. I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong, but I don't think this discussion is going to lead to anything but frustration.
"[...] we can, as Mr. Whitefield used to say, agree to disagree."
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FlamingWheel
- level1
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:13 pm
Medens wrote:That is exactly the point with digital media! Where in your life have you ever walked into a retail store picked up and item you might like, walked out and when the security guard tries to stop you, you just say: "Don't worry I'll be back if I like it otherwise you just won't see me again.". Why should a piece of digitally distributed content be any different! Fact of the matter is your breaking the law! Dim witted people like you who can't think for themselves are going to be the reason developers/ publishers move away from digital distribution ergo I have to get of my fat ass and actually go to the store again so snap too! As for other people who have said that the price is too steep . . . Have you ever in your sad little life made a game? Do you know how hard it is, how much effort goes into it? Go do that and then you can come back and complain again!
I'm actually not breaking the law. I live in the Netherlands and downloading digital media under any circumstances is legal in the sense that you can't get arrested for it.
Because over here the policy of downloading to see if you like it and buying it later is pretty well accepted.
Putting that aside, your comment is somewhat hostile. I don't appreciate that really.
You should really do some desk research on the subject of piracy and you'll quickly find out that piracy is not harming any media industries but is in fact boosting it. (As I had to research this as a media manager.)
The standard example that would be given in this situation is Minecraft. It's been pirated a ridiculous amount yet at the same time it's one of the best selling indie games out there. (Even besting AAA releases in terms of profits.)
Allow me to simplify this for you once more:
Piracy helps the industries because unlike what you think they aren't 'dimwits'. They fully understand that not buying products will harm a company so if they like what they see they will end up buying it.
This is a mistake you, and many industries make. An illigal download does not equal a sale not sold.
Not only that but they spread the word about the game, mouth to mouth marketing, while not being the most efficient, it's very powerful.
Just think about it, if your peers are talking very positive about certain movies/music/games you'll be more inclined to see what it's all about yourself.
So in the case of a very good game or good movie or good series. One illigal download might equal multiple actual sales.
Sure, not everybody is like that. There are people that were never planning to buy it, the situation with these people is mostly that they don't have the money to spend on it. It's effectively not a lost sale because they weren't going to buy it even if they could not illegally download it.
This however is all based on a good piece of media. When it comes down to bad media, piracy does in fact hurt.
Most people pirate, as said before, to test it. This is possible because digital and retail media are two separate things (a subject you seem quite confused about).
Now when they test it and it's genuinely bad, nobody will buy it. In the past, when everything was retail, a certain number would've been bought before word got out that the product was bad. Now it's spread in less than a day.
This cuts down sales quite a bit, but what consumer would care about a bad product? None.
This is really how much I'm willing to discuss on this matter. Please for your own sake do some proper research on the subject before claiming that piracy is in fact hurtful.
Actually I do want to discuss some more...
Medens wrote:So what your saying is we should release all the robbers and shoplifters because it's alright they were just trying it they were going to buy it if they liked it. There is absolutly no distinction between physical theft and digital theft they are the exact same thing! Think about it this way when you want a new part for your computer but you can't afford it or don't know if it is the right purchase you don't walk into the store grab the part you want and if you like it you come back and pay for it or else they just never see you again! Besides how dare you demand that somebody let you have their property before you're willing to pay them for it, a game is just like any other product, X person has put their blood sweat and tears into this thing and you think you have some kind of right to take it from them!
Digital and physical products are quite different, it's quite embarrassing that you fail to realize this.
It's also pretty bad to compare physical products such as computer parts with digital copies, they are not comparable by any logical means.
It's quite obvious isn't it?
In the example of game copies:
Physical copies have additional production costs, digital copies can be copied infinitely, not only that but every physical copy is unique, because of the cost associated with producing the copies. A physical copy that get's stolen is a definite loss of whatever they had to spend to produce it.
Digital copies don't have these additional costs, a digital piracy act. while being a theft, is not a loss for the company. In fact, as I briefly explained before, piracy has many benefits that exist exactly because digital and physical copies are different.
Again, you will want to do some proper research on the subject. Which means looking up neutral researches.
It's not really hard to see that the market has changed, the whole stopping of piracy is simply an act by old fashioned media giants that realize that they didn't adapt to the market. They say piracy is costing them money while in reality it's boosting their sales. It's quite embarrassing.
Most companies that adapt to the new market are enjoying wealth even in the current (poor) economic climate.
Now if you'll excuse me, I actually didn't intend on spending my evening on educating somebody on digital distribution and piracy's effect on it.
But just saying that you are wrong without actually telling you why would be quite rude of me.
(And you should still read up on some official unbiased researches on the matter.)
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Irish_Pancak3
- level0
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:33 am
Medens wrote:
So what your saying is we should release all the robbers and shoplifters because it's alright they were just trying it they were going to buy it if they liked it. There is absolutly no distinction between physical theft and digital theft they are the exact same thing! Think about it this way when you want a new part for your computer but you can't afford it or don't know if it is the right purchase you don't walk into the store grab the part you want and if you like it you come back and pay for it or else they just never see you again! Besides how dare you demand that somebody let you have their property before you're willing to pay them for it, a game is just like any other product, X person has put their blood sweat and tears into this thing and you think you have some kind of right to take it from them!
No. He isn't. You wouldn't steal a TV then go back and buy one would you? You're coming up with unrelated examples; digital piracy is completely different than physical theft.
It's not even a full game yet, it's alpha. The fact that it's available to try out for free means that people can get an idea of it without having to pay $30 for an unfinished game, if they like it, they might buy it, if they don't then Introversion lose nothing. I know many people who torrent games then continue to buy it because they want the full features of the game.
FlamingWheel wrote:Pleased to meet you Disc10, I download games and various other media through torrents and what not and have actually torrented Prison Architect.
I'll be the first person you know that actively pirates every piece of digital media I'm interested in and then buys whatever media I support.
I've bought about half the games I torrented in the past, a few games are yet to be bought (Prison Architect is one of them as I only purchase using iDeal through Steam) and most other that remain are simply of no interest to me.
In the past I used to go to stores and buy things based on how the cover looked or rarely by seeing videos of it.
The thing is, these never show how the game really is in your hands and how much fun it is. I wasted so much money on music, movies and games that piracy now prevents happening. Even demo's don't work, they just give a half-assed impression of what could be.
I realize that not everybody is like this. Many pirates are but there are some that pirate because they want to spend their money elsewhere or because they simply don't want to pay at all.
The thing is, they still spread word about the game if it's worth mentioning and it's not like companies actively lose much money on these kinds of pirates because they most likely wont buy the product if not available illegally.
In any case, pleased to meet you. I suspect you must be from an older generation then mine, but that is quite all right.
Other than the condescending tone (I'm 20, for the record
) I appreciate getting a response that doesn't boil down to "gotta fight the man, man", "But why shouldn't I get it for free?" or "You suck".
I have actually written down most of my thoughts on this kind of argument here (It's an angry rant more aimed for entertaining and venting, so be warned): http://mad-doodles.tumblr.com/post/2560 ... e-any-more
I fully stand by all of that. The only excuse is if it's totally impossible to get said digital media legally (which I initially forgot about). And I mean TOTALLY. Everything else is just a reason, and they range from being "meh" to "you're taking the piss now."
And I'm still convinced you're in the minority (still don't know you personally by the way
). For every person that proudly proclaims that they've paid for what they've just taken anyway, I can easily see a dozen more just keeping their money. If I could truly believe that EVERY pirate shared those intentions, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Hell I'd even pirate stuff myself again if I knew I would follow that philosophy.
And that's the thing. I know I won't because often I can't. Sure, I may be interested in a game, but I can't put money down on it unless I KNOW I'm going to enjoy it. Same with going to the cinema, I will not go see a movie if I think I'm not going to like it, even just a little bit. Do I pirate stuff on the pretense that I'm gonna buy it later if I like it? No, I do without. Buy hey, maybe that's what a childhood of not much spare money and a shit to non-existent internet connection teach you.
So if I can't trust MYSELF to not be a shitty pirate (and I will admit, there ARE non-shitty pirates out there.), how can I trust every Joe Bloggs out there as well?
No, piracy isn't theft. No, piracy does not equal lost sales and no, piracy is hardly the worst thing in the world. But acting like you deserve everything you pirated, that you're en enlightened individual amongst the masses or that you're doing anything but taking what you want against the wishes of the creator is stupid.
EDIT: Feel I should clarify, I don't have an issue with piracy per say, honest!
It's the bloody holier than thou attitude I see so much (once again NOT directed at anyone).
I'm really not going to look through all that text, pirating is wrong. But some people actually feel bad, or like the game enough to buy the game, thus making the "Pirating" a little okay since eventually he only used it to try out the game.
I pirated it too, then bought it because the game was awesome enough.
PS: You can probably spot a pirate by him posting his issues in the general area.
I pirated it too, then bought it because the game was awesome enough.
PS: You can probably spot a pirate by him posting his issues in the general area.
SUCCESS!
A guy on youtube (Name I'll just leave) had a video with every alpha downloadable on mediafire on his channel, spoke to him about supporting indie developers and whatnot, he removed it
((PS: Funny thing, when I commented on the video he cried about my low amount of video views, little unrelated..))
A guy on youtube (Name I'll just leave) had a video with every alpha downloadable on mediafire on his channel, spoke to him about supporting indie developers and whatnot, he removed it
((PS: Funny thing, when I commented on the video he cried about my low amount of video views, little unrelated..))
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