Ideas for additions to the Modding System

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Icepick
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Ideas for additions to the Modding System

Postby Icepick » Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:36 pm

Ok, so now that Darwinia is all but finished, pending iminent release, I thought now would be a good time to post this. Chris said that after Darwinia is released, there will be a patch/patches that, amoungst other things, add to Darwinia's modding functionality.
Basicallly, heres a whole bunch of ideas I've had.

Note that Ive posted some of these before, but the thread was largely ignored since it was labeled spoiler and only a small handful of people had finished the game at the time.

Adding your own buildings to the game.
Being able to add your own functional buildings to the game would be a big boon for Modders, given the very level-specific nature of a lot of the buildings in Darwinia. As best I can tell, some of what we would need is already there, it would just require some tweaking. I don't imagine many of you have taken a look at the .shp files that Darwinia uses for its 3d Models, but all of the Darwinian-powered buildings (the ones with the little bays) have their bays loaded in by hooks in the Building file. If the game was changed to check all custom building files for these Bay-hooks and load them in the right place (it doesn't yet, I checked), it would be easy to create custom Darwinian-powered buidlings. Some custom scripting might be needed for other kinds of buildings, telling them when to come 'online', or anything else they would need to do.

Adding your own units to the game.
Once again, most of the enemies in Darwinia are very scenario-specific. If the Virus is indeed destroyed at the end of Darwinia's story, that leaves very few options for story-driven mods. Heres my idea on how a unit creator/editor for the game could work.
Basically, you start with your model (Im not sure how animations work in the game so that might be an issue). You select an AI type for your new unit from a list, which can include options like 'AlwaysChargeEnemy', 'StayAtFiringRange', 'JumpOnEnemy' (spiders) etc etc. This would dictate the behaviour for a unit.
You then select the unit's weapons. Perhaps each unit has a Primary and Secondary. Once again there would be a list to chose from (though more would likely need to be added from the current selection), like lasers, rocket type explosives or grenade type explosives, or Damage on Collision (like centipedes). Through some kind of editor, you select the point on the model that these weapons fire from. Then you just create the stats (probably in a seperate file) for health, speed etc. Thats about it as far as I can see. With that you would more or less have a fully functioning unit. There's probably something(s) I'm overlooking, but this is a good starting point.

The ability to include new gestures for your newly created unit.

Adding the stuff we saw from hacking the Phase 1 Beta back in (albiet with some tweaking). The field gun and tank units were huge fun to play around with. If some AI could be added to these as well so that you could fight against them, that would be pretty awesome too.

New kinds of mission objective. Clearing all enemy units from a specific area, or from the whole level, for example. Mission timers would also be quite cool.

Damage zones - ie. areas that cause damage to units that enter them, like lava or radiation or cactii patches or something.

A couple of extra teams to add (blue and purple maybe). This would allow for multi-faction campaigns.

Destroyable buildings. Being able to destroy an enemy building for a mission objective. Give it a health counter and make it explode like everything else when it reaches 0.

Add the snow back into the game and give us a way of making it level specific! :) Other unique bits like that would add a lot too.

The other bigger idea I had was some kind of miner unit. The Mine and Yard levels are all well and good for areas connected to them, but what about the newer areas which will be farther away?
A miner unit could be created that would move to a location and start digging polygons from the ground just like the mine facility, store them, and return them to a facility. The rate that the Miner digs polygons could be determined by the height and steepness of the land its mining. Once its full, or after a certain amount of time, it could return to the refinery or whatever, and go and mine more. The refinery would do exactly what the Mine level's refinery did - convert polygons into primitives.
These primitives could then be used to create units (like the Armour, or new things which could be added). Instead of just pouring out of a yard like in Yard, some kind of click system could be added - you click on the building and get a list. You can see the sort of thing Im talking about in the Darwinia preview movie, or you can see it on the Factory building in the early phase 1 betas.

I'll probably post more later, but I've gotta start getting ready for work now. I encourage people to add their own ideas, or expand on mine.
Last edited by Icepick on Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ideas for additions to the Modding System

Postby Phydaux » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:27 pm

Some great ideas... I'd kinda thought along the same lines for a while. Hope they get included at some point. :)

Umm :
Icepick wrote:... only a small handful of people had finished the game at the game.
:P
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Postby LLamaBoy » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:20 pm

With regards to the new buildings and units, maybe a tool for actually creating new .shp files so that people can fully customize areas (imagine darwinian teepees or an urban area with skyscrapers :P).
The world is simple enough that almost anyone could make models that fit in well, little or no real artistic talent would be required.

Something else that might be cool would be modification/scripting of the world map. Things like directing the "constellation" pulses (maybe simulate a DDOS atack on Darwinia), or being able to change parts of the globe, adding/removing sections, modifying the repository glow, etc.

I'll probably add more later on too, but I need dinner now.
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Re: Ideas for additions to the Modding System

Postby Icepick » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

Phydaux wrote:Some great ideas... I'd kinda thought along the same lines for a while. Hope they get included at some point. :)

Umm :
Icepick wrote:... only a small handful of people had finished the game at the game.
:P


My brain exploded! Fixed now though.
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Postby Rkiver » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:26 am

Splodey good. No splodey bad. Rest of destruction wrought by years of gaming.
Uplink help: Read the FAQ
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Re: Ideas for additions to the Modding System

Postby Andcarne » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:51 am

Icepick wrote:Instead of just pouring out of a yard like in Yard, some kind of click system could be added - you click on the building and get a list. You can see the sort of thing Im talking about in the Darwinia preview movie, or you can see it on the Factory building in the early phase 1 betas.


What would be cool, and might fit in better with Darwinia overall would be a system which directs percentages of the polygon stream and energy stream to different buildings.

ie, there'd be a splitter in the lines, and you could give 15% of your refined polygons to make Armour, and the other 85% for something else.

It would be especially neat if some things could be built with only energy, as well as maybe adding another resource type that is mined by a unit like Icepick suggested.

I'll come up with some more ideas soon. It's really great to see developers supporting the modding community like this though. :)
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Postby Starfyre » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:02 am

Don't forget multiplayer! :shock:
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Postby Miah » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:46 pm

We'll leave that to Introversion to code that.

But here's what I want to know: will there be a DevCD in the future?
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Postby Superpig » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:13 pm

Miah Helpmann wrote:But here's what I want to know: will there be a DevCD in the future?
I certainly hope so. A DevCD would be the most effective way of supporting any kind of mod that people want to release. That said, Darwinia is that much more high-profile than Uplink; it would be harder to keep the contents of the DevCD from leaking because interest would be that much higher. If it does happen it probably won't be till after interest has died down quite significantly...
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Postby Darksun » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:39 pm

Well, the Uplink source has been leaked.

But code leaks arn't that great a problem (other than lost revenue - but that's going to happen anyway). Darwinia has no copy protection system to be cracked (and even if it did, most get cracked without source anyway).

Besides, just make sure that the major sites (i.e. TNG and what other moddings sites arise) only accept authorised mods, then there's not much point having the downloaded code.
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Postby Superpig » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:22 pm

Multiplayer will make it more of an issue. If people can easily obtain the source and mess with it, they can give themselves unfair advantages. (I guess if IV only support multiplayer over LAN then it's less of a problem).

In general I'm wondering how they plan to ensure security in multiplayer games; given the extremely open nature of the game's data files, there's going to need to be some checking to ensure that everyone's playing on the same battlefield. Though I guess given that the data's so small, transmitting stuff from server to clients won't be much of an issue.
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Postby Icepick » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:50 am

Personally, I'd rather see the game become completely mod-able itself rather than having the source released. Having to load seperate exe's for each mod is messy at best. If you can do whatever you want to do with the standard modding system and release mods files in a standard format, the whole scene is going to be a lot cleaner I think.
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Postby Superpig » Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:08 am

Icepick wrote:Personally, I'd rather see the game become completely mod-able itself rather than having the source released. Having to load seperate exe's for each mod is messy at best. If you can do whatever you want to do with the standard modding system and release mods files in a standard format, the whole scene is going to be a lot cleaner I think.
Agreed. *cough* Somebody should do something like that for Uplink *cough*
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Postby Miah » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:02 am

Icepick wrote:Personally, I'd rather see the game become completely mod-able itself rather than having the source released. Having to load seperate exe's for each mod is messy at best. If you can do whatever you want to do with the standard modding system and release mods files in a standard format, the whole scene is going to be a lot cleaner I think.


I have my reasons for the DevCD. Firstly, the Uplink CD itself taught me more than anything else out there. Secondly, my idea for my own mod. I have a rough outline of what I want it to be, and a half baked level.

The only thing is: I would need to edit the source. The entire premese relies on at least one other team number. I'm not ngoing to reveal the details, but the use is for "infected" squads and engineers.

And one other team for a different type of darwinian, which I may be able to make use of team -1 with.

But I would need that CD, so I can do it. Which is why I ask. I need to know if I can ever do it. I know that by then, I will have Onlink ready, even if the source would be release only a year from now (which I doubt).

Superpig wrote:*cough* Somebody should do something like that for Uplink *cough*


Is that meant for me? :?
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Postby Superpig » Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:05 am

Miah Helpmann wrote:
Superpig wrote:*cough* Somebody should do something like that for Uplink *cough*


Is that meant for me? :?
Huh? No, it was self-referential - I coded the beginnings of a DLL-based (or SO-based) mod system for Uplink, to the extent that I'd packaged a load more names for the worldgen and I'd packaged somebody's tic-tac-toe app up as DLLs. Things kinda ground to a halt when I realised I'd need to rip out and replace the player profile system.

Why, have you been working on something similar?
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