Darwinia Multiplayer vs. Multiwinia

[00Davo]

I've played Multiwinia. I've only played the demo, but it's a very different game to Darwinia. Where's my Task Manager? Where are my Darwinians? How am I commanding these "Multiwinians" without an Officer? Why doesn't that Trunkport go anywhere? Etc. etc. ad nauseum. It's just so... different that, while I'm sure it's a great game, it isn't Darwinia at all, and I really can't play it without getting annoyed about how it isn't Darwinia, despite looking exactly like it. The cooperative mode in Multiwinia may be more "Darwinian", but from what I've seen, I suspect it's just the normal mode, except for having two players on one team...

Are there any plans for a real multiplayer mode for Darwinia, or was Multiwinia supposed to be the multiplayer mode?

(BTW, I don't think Multiwinia is a "bad" game: just not Darwinia)

[KingAl]

Well, Multiwinia wasn't really meant to be Darwinia, as I'm sure you've gathered. Indeed, you'll notice that Multiwinia generally involves faster reinforcements, more randomness in the former of crates, more strategy with Darwinians through use of formations and rapid orders facilitated by the lack of a need for officers, and just generally faster action.
The real issue, to my mind, is that Darwinia wouldn't have been that fun as a multiplayer game. It would have boiled down to slow, painful wars between walls of Darwinians, neither gaining the upper hand easily, while the hyper powerful, infinitely buildable squaddies change the tide of battle single-handedly. The mechanics that make it great fun as a single player game actually detract from it as a multiplayer experience.

[briceman2]

According to IV (Chris, in particular), MW is what they *wanted* to make the first time around with Darwinia. Yes, you read that right, Darwinia was never meant to be. But IV ran out of money/time (same thing) and couldn't finish the multiplayer Darwinia (then called FutureWars) they wanted to make. So they took the engine they had so far and hacked it until they had made Darwinia out of the wreckage.

Darwinia is actually a client-server game... even though it is single player. That's because it was supposed to be a multiplayer game. 00Davo, since you are on linux, you can watch the server messages during init, level startups, and game play by starting the game from a terminal window and running it windowed. First thing it does is negotiate client-server configuration...

No, there will never be a multiplayer Darwinia. That game is Multiwinia. They share the same engine/code. IV only had to tweak Darwinia to turn it into Multiwinia. Most of the executable is the same code.

If IV open up MW to modding, there is a chance you will be able to create Darwinia-style mods using the extended Multiwinia codebase. All the original Darwinia code is in there I think -- they include all the old support files with MW (except a few music files TGF says). I don't have MW yet ('cause I'm supposed to be looking for a new job now) but I wonder if you can play Darwinia from within MW? Maybe you can set the profile lines "mod =" etc. in MW and get it to load up a regular old Darwinia mod?

[00Davo]

The real issue, to my mind, is that Darwinia wouldn't have been that fun as a multiplayer game. It would have boiled down to slow, painful wars between walls of Darwinians, neither gaining the upper hand easily, while the hyper powerful, infinitely buildable squaddies change the tide of battle single-handedly. The mechanics that make it great fun as a single player game actually detract from it as a multiplayer experience.

I wasn't really thinking of a deathmatch when I made the suggestion: Darwinia wasn't really that sort of game anyway.

What would be awesome is a Darwinia cooperative/competitive cross-over. Basically, you'd play through the original game, like normal. However, there are two (or more) players connecting to Darwinia. Each player would have their Task Manager, with the same number of slots they'd usually have. Programs run by a player would be on their team, and in their colour (much like the units in Multiwinia). Control Towers captured by a player's units will also be on their team, along with their linked building. (Other teams can also use a captured Incubator) Darwinians spawned by that player's units will also be on that team.

If they're on different teams, they can obviously fight each other. The Darwinians will attack those on other teams unless one player declares a allegiance with another team, preventing ALL the player's units from attacking those on the other team. All teams begin in allegiance. Allegiances are made and broken via the scoreboard screen (which replaces the research screen).

Speaking of scoreboards... Each player will be scored by the number of Control Towers and Darwinians on their team. A bonus is awarded for completing an objective. At the end of each level, the player with the most points receives a reward - perhaps the research of their choice?

Thoughts?

[RabidZombie]

According to IV (Chris, in particular), MW is what they *wanted* to make the first time around with Darwinia. Yes, you read that right, Darwinia was never meant to be. But IV ran out of money/time (same thing) and couldn't finish the multiplayer Darwinia (then called FutureWars) they wanted to make. So they took the engine they had so far and hacked it until they had made Darwinia out of the wreckage.

Actually, it isn't that they run out of money that they changed. It was because Futurewar wasn't any fun.

No, there will never be a multiplayer Darwinia. That game is Multiwinia. They share the same engine/code. IV only had to tweak Darwinia to turn it into Multiwinia. Most of the executable is the same code.

That's not necessarily true. We don't know if Introversion ever plan to add cooperation to Darwinia. And, I'm going to guess that the network code isn't the same in Darwinia and Multiwinia, since Introversion's networking experience has changed significantly since they made Darwinia.

If IV open up MW to modding, there is a chance you will be able to create Darwinia-style mods using the extended Multiwinia codebase. All the original Darwinia code is in there I think -- they include all the old support files with MW (except a few music files TGF says). I don't have MW yet ('cause I'm supposed to be looking for a new job now) but I wonder if you can play Darwinia from within MW? Maybe you can set the profile lines "mod =" etc. in MW and get it to load up a regular old Darwinia mod?

Don't forget, none of the Darwinia specific code will have been altered to fix for sync errors and account for Multiple players, so I doubt it would work if it was possible.

[00Davo]

According to IV (Chris, in particular), MW is what they *wanted* to make the first time around with Darwinia. Yes, you read that right, Darwinia was never meant to be. But IV ran out of money/time (same thing) and couldn't finish the multiplayer Darwinia (then called FutureWars)

Actually, it isn't that they run out of money that they changed. It was because Futurewar wasn't any fun.

Wait. Introversion wanted to make Multiwinia first. But it wasn't any fun, so they made Darwinia instead? In that case, why did they still make Multiwinia???

[KingAl]

IV were trying to make a massive, sprite based wargame. FutureWar was their first attempt, but it didn't work; it wasn't any fun. That was not what IV wanted to create, it was an attempt to produce what IV wanted to create. Multiwinia is not FutureWar. The design did not leap fully formed from Chris's head like Athena

[xander]

IV were trying to make a massive, sprite based wargame. FutureWar was their first attempt, but it didn't work; it wasn't any fun. That was not what IV wanted to create, it was an attempt to produce what IV wanted to create. Multiwinia is not FutureWar. The design did not leap fully formed from Chris's head like Athena ;)

Athena leapt fully formed from Chris' head? ZOMG! I always thought it was from Zeus' head. Chris... is there something you are not telling us?

xander

[KingAl]

It's true. He's multitalented.

Zeus is Chris is Icepick is WolfLord is God is Jesus is NeoThermic is ...

[00Davo]

IV were trying to make a massive, sprite based wargame. FutureWar was their first attempt, but it didn't work; it wasn't any fun. That was not what IV wanted to create, it was an attempt to produce what IV wanted to create. Multiwinia is not FutureWar. The design did not leap fully formed from Chris's head like Athena

Oh.

I still want "proper" Darwinia multiplayer.